Amigo in discussion with Hans Laurentius on what Realization is and what it means.

Amigo: Recently I read the following: "There is nothing to be won or achieved. You are already perfect. You only have to accept your certificate; you have already passed your exams." Isn’t it true that Realization is often over-mystified by the personality?

Hans: What we essentially are is surely perfect. Perfect in the sense that nothing can or needs to be added to it, and that nothing can be taken away from it. I say therefore that Realization is your birthright. You are That already. Nevertheless, we can see that many people travel along some path for years before they recognize this. This recognition is of great importance. It only occurs when the whole picture has become clear - that what the personality is and how it behaves had, has and will have no influence on Consciousness whatsoever.

What usually happens first is that we are liberated from the idea that we are the person we thought ourselves to be. We think we have to satisfy certain conditions in order to obtain the prize of enlightenment, that we should first become like this or like that. Of course, to become like this or like that has, as you say, everything to do with ideas and ideals that are present in our feelings and thoughts about what Enlightenment is, and how you will be once you have ‘arrived’. Most people are full of ideas on this subject, but you can safely reckon that 90% of them are nonsense. (The last 10% will evaporate in a natural way, eventually).

Amigo: In fact the seeker creates some idealistic picture about Realization, about how it will or should be. That picture will put him on the track, but will eventually stand in his way.

Hans: The ideas about Realization will certainly put the seeker on the track, and will eventually all fall apart. The dismantling of ideas and ideals about Realization during the process can seem quite annoying. However, it once again proves the proposition that it’s ultimately only our ideas that prevent us from getting any further, and not an actual ‘something. It’s all about Seeing, not about concepts, preferences, fears, desires or ideals.

Each ideal refers to Consciousness, which is, after all, the Knower of it. So whatever idea we may have about how ‘I’ will be when ‘I’ have become Enlightened, it’s just an idea, and that’s all it is. By the way, it is not that strange, since there will be some shift after it has been discovered that the person is not the centre but only one of the phenomena observed by the I - Consciousness. The emphasis is no longer on should I change or be like this or that. A lot of fuss will be resolved, of course. This natural, resolved easiness is highly desired by many seekers, because most of them have some difficulty with almost everything, don’t they?

Amigo: You said somewhere: "To have seen It does not mean that you are It." (from Seeking to Seeing to Being). Could this process be caused by the fact that after having Seen It, or having some glimpse of It, the idea we have about it turns into disappointment (is this all?), doubt and disenchantment?

Hans: From my experience it is clear that many people quite easily see that Consciousness, Silence, Space, Openness, or whatever you would like to call it, always IS. This already gives a certain relaxation, but it is completely different from the Realization that you ARE That. However, for many people it is important to first realize that Consciousness is always there and that nothing can be experienced without It. The relaxation and faith that comes over the mind through this experience makes it possible to realize the next step: that you are this Observer, this Consciousness yourself. Often that step suddenly seems impossible. So it is as you say: first seek the Truth, then see the Truth, and then See that you are the Truth. This process, as you call it, has to do with all kinds of trails that are present in the mind. Once a good look is taken, no one can deny the presence of Consciousness. No one! But that is not yet the same as accepting that you are It. For many people that goes too far.

Among other things, this has to do with all sorts of common ideas about Enlightenment. For instance, that it will be some kind of elevated state, that it will change you or make you a better, wiser person. As to the last idea I often say, "First we wake up, and then we become wiser, but only as a side effect". In general we are very scared of arrogance, with a few exceptions, partly because of sayings like: "Anyone who says they are enlightened is not", and probably partly as a result of our Calvinistic bias. On the other hand, this is not so bad, because we will not party too early.
Back to your question, I think it is right to say that our opinions about Enlightenment and the effects of Realization experiences play an important role in the fact that it takes a few years for many people to really let the Realization of what their true nature is sink in.

Amigo: I would like to consider this process in two ways because I think that some distinction might be helpful. First, there is the apparent process that leads to the recognition and Realization of the fact that we are Consciousness. Second, we could say that after this Realization there is another process, which I sometimes call the process of ‘working through’ or embodiment.

Hans: Concerning the first process I would say the following: the Realization experience is often accompanied by more or less sensational ‘states’, which are, of course, temporary, as all states are. After all, a Realization experience is an experience. While we are talking about the Realization of that which is not an experience or a temporary state. Often the experience, which is an additional phenomenon, is taken for the Realization. Periods of great lucidity or being engulfed by intense happiness or love are very impressive, but can readily give us the idea that the permanent state of the enlightened is to have such experiences, which is not true, of course.

As soon as such an experience disappears again, we are left behind with a spiritual hangover, and say "I had It completely, and now I have lost It", usually followed by at least one sob. Very understandable and, as I wrote in De vreugde van Verlichting, recognisable. For Hans things were no different. He also had to admit that it is not about those occasional beautiful experiences, but about the fact that he is Consciousness, That which is effortlessly aware of the coming and going of experiences. And this also includes spiritual and Realization experiences. This phase is often quite trying, and I would say that it can be helpful then if there is some teacher around to make some adjustments when things tend to get too dramatic. In the previous Amigo I stated that these experiences are emanations of the Self, but the Self is the Knower of these emanations and their effects on the body and the spirit.

Concerning the second process: after the actual Realization has taken place, something seems to happen on the body-mind level. As the focus is no longer on I-the person†but on that in which everything takes place, all kinds of things become dismantled. As a result, the Self tends to manifest its emanations more and more via the body-mind. All kinds of ego-particles that previously stood in Love’s way fall apart, so that the light can enter more easily.

There is, however, no one there anymore who does or does not want this; it simply happens, and a natural availability for that process comes into being. This is obvious, since the Realization that you are availability already happened. The difference is that where Hans-the-seeker was busy to become like this or like that, or to achieve this or that, he is no longer busy now. Particularly by not being busy doctoring, improving and achieving, spontaneous insight can come in all kinds of matters that are therefore spontaneously resolved, and any cramps that are left will disappear. As a result, Love/Truth can be expressed via the body-mind more easily.

From some given moment on, the process of embodiment continues completely by itself. Simply in your daily life, so not from your meditation cushion or whatever. Just through life itself. Learning just continues and everything actually becomes very normal. You simply become completely yourself, and learning and life simply take their course, just as they ought to, naturally.

Amigo: How did you find your way through all that?

Hans: You mean how did I find my way through that (first) process? Like everyone else, I guess, with ups and downs, joy and grief, through delusion to truth. Through despair, ecstasy, silence and pain. So very ordinarily, and in accordance with the character of Hans, who can be quite intense at times . What brought relief, of course, was seeing the fact that I am Consciousness and that it didn’t matter at all whether there was ecstasy, lucidity, despair, or boredom and so on. The insight came that the teaching lies exactly in that. They showed me hundreds of experiences, pleasant and unpleasant, until it was seen that I was the Seeing and not what the spirit experienced and regardless of my opinion about it.

Amigo: Realization does not have a waiting room. Yet we keep waiting and expecting. If we read all the different teachers on the passing of him who seemingly waits, we find 1001 roads leading to Rome. Is everyone’s way different then?

Hans: Yes and No. Osho said: "Everyone is his own path", and that is true. At the same time it is finally all the same. We go from here to now, from then to later. The flowers and thorns along the path are slightly different, the rocks are smaller or bigger, the rivers are slower, deeper or more turbulent, or the opposite. But eventually we all go via some detour that is apparently inevitable. However, at the ‘arrival’ it makes no difference anymore. Freedom also frees you from the past, that is to say from its burdens.

When it was seen how things really were, a wave of anger came before laughter burst out. The thought came up: "Damn it! Hasn’t it always been like this? Have I been making such a fuss for this?" The thought had not yet ended before an enormous fit of laughter came up, until the tears rolled down my cheeks. Then this experience cleared away and the screen was empty again: silent, clear, and available for the next thing to show up. Indeed, it had always been like this, only it had been forgotten. And life rolls on without leaving a trace in the Ultimate. Isn’t that great?

Amigo: It seems like a flanking movement that finally closes itself in a circle. You have arrived where you started, only this time without resistance and reconciled. And nothing ever happened. And there you stand, with empty hands.

Hans: And so it is, that is nicely said. You’re back on the market-square, empty-handed and with nothing to say. WHAT A MIRACLE!