Cathy: I don’t agree with you that
when one has realized the Self there’s nothing more to discover. From the Self’s point of view, certainly it
is so.
Ram:
This is the point of view I was referring to.
Cathy: From the Self as manifest
world’s point of view, this is nonsense.
Ram:
The idea of a manifest world is nonsense too. Everything that you call the manifest world
is nothing but the Self. The Self is not
hidden beneath it or behind it in some subtle space or dimension. “What you worship there is what you see
here,” the Veda says. Manifest and
unmanifest are just concepts.
If you inquire into anything here,
if you analyze the forms, break them down into their constituents you will see
that they have no actual substance.
Therefore if you know them will you know anything real? If you enjoy inquiring into unreality that is
fine but you should know that it is unreality.
The knowledge of limited things is always fundamentally
unsatisfying. This is why people go on
and on trying to ‘learn’ more about their subject. This kind of knowledge always reveals more
ignorance. And then one has to set out
to remove that ignorance. And so
on.
This is why there is only one knowledge to seek: who am I? And once this knowledge is
gained the search for knowledge stops.
This is so because the essence of every bit of knowledge is the
Self. Without it there is nothing to
know, nor anyone to know it. Yes, you
can seek relative knowledge to amuse yourself or to solve practical problems
but basically this is a superficial pursuit, one that has no permanent effect
on you, the Self.
Cathy: Most great masters have healthy vibrant
curiosity about the world around them.
Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to love going to the circus. I know Swami Dayananda certainly had loads of
curiosity. I do believe that Swami
Chinmayanda had a great deal of joie de vivre and interest in life. Even the silent Ramana Maharshi in his silent
confined physical boundaries had distinct preferences.
Ram:
Perhaps, but only on the surface.
I don’t believe in the concept of great masters. My view is that there is only one ‘master’
and it is neither a master nor is it great.
And that is…ta ta!...got it in one…the Self.
The Swami dies and all that remains is the Self. From the outside, people look at the body and
see the tendencies playing and they think that this person is enlightened (or
not) but there is only one enlightened being…you, the Self. Where are all the great masters today? Jesus,
the Buddha? They are all dead and
gone. But is the Self, God, dead and
gone? Throw them all away because they
only exist in your mind. Or keep them in
your mind…but know that they are only happy dreams. The Self alone exists.
Cathy: And don’t say that there is nothing to
discover when you have repeatedly said that you enjoy the machinations of the
human mind.
Ram:
I enjoy it because it is funny, not because it is anything new.
Cathy: And if you were so dead you would never spend
the time, energy and love on being such a great teacher to people.
Ram: I am not a great teacher. I am not a teacher. Ignorance is sometimes removed when I
communicate the Self. There is no ‘I’
teaching. It looks that way when you
take yourself to be a person, but it is not so.
Cathy: Perhaps your physical death
is imminent and a sad day that would be for me.
Ram:
No it wouldn’t because I continue to exist as you.
Cathy: But it’s been a year or so
now that you’ve been singing this song.
Do you think you need a shrink?
I’ll let you have my ex-shrink’s email if you like. He’ll sort you out – show you the gates to paradise!
Ram: Good idea. Send it on.
Cathy: But, before I conclude this tome, I wish to
quote a few points from Swami Rama of the
Ram:
I’m hopeful you’re not being serious.
If you are, both you and Swami Rama are morons. What does he know? He probably copied a bunch of yogic folklore
from some old texts. Death is always
impending. From the relative point of
view, the fact that we are living means that we are dying. From my point of view there is no death. It is just another dream.