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Re: -

Postby Anja » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:17 pm

Rick, you deleted your thread-title and your inicial first post and also the posts by you that came after the first one. What topic do you think this thread has now? And why do you want me to stay out of it, if there isn't even a given topic in the title any longer? How, under these conditions, can I be off-topic here by any means?

Do you understand why and what for I ask these questions?
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Re: -

Postby Rick » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:19 pm

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Re: -

Postby Rick » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:21 pm

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Re: -

Postby Stan » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:29 pm

Hi Anja,

In reply to your....

Regarding having a "method" of making a rajasic mind into a satvic one, I would like to know what your take is on what a satvic mind is.

How does a satvic mind operate? What kind of content is in a satvic mind, if there is any? How does it feel to have a satvic mind? And what is it good for in a broader sense, like being a part of a community and having a satvic mind?


First of all, my take ( and I don`t really have a personal take ) would be as follows...
When Maya is `operating`, sattva which is pure knowledge / Intelligence appears. It is the first of the three gunas to appear. It is at this point known as Pure Maya and is the nature of the mind. It`s very important to be clear about this fact.

Tamas and Rajas follow on. They are the main cause of Ignorance as they extrovert the mind by turning it towards objects which are thought to be Real.
When a person is sattvic, the mind is turned inwards toward awareness, its nature. This happens when rajas and tamas have been largely subdued to the point where they no longer agitate or disturb the mind. As Sattva reflects your self nature, it feels very good, wonderful even.

The practise of Karma Yoga AND Self Knowledge purifies the mind so it can become the person`s predominant Guna. You could say that that is the "method" to make the mind Sattvic.

When personal ignorance (avidya) of yourself as awareness has been removed by self
-knowledge, maya and its effects still remain and the gunas continue to condition the subtle body (the ‘person’)...but are rendered non-binding as the doer has been negated by self knowledge. They have nothing more to do with you, awareness. you know that you are beyond the gunas...your conditioning. Here both knowledge and ignorance are both negated as they are then just objects known to you.

If you observe your thoughts, actions and feelings, noting which guna predominates in them, you will see that the thoughts, actions etc become very predictable. if you notice someone who is under the influence of sattva or tamas say, it will be embarrasingly clear as to how they will act in given circumstances. you will likely know better about how they behave than they do !

When rajas predominates, the person will be above all projecting. Arrogance,passion, anger, extrovertion, fear and dissatisfaction will be a regular companion.
possessiveness, jealousy, controlling, boredom are common signs of Rajasic minds.
fear based thoughts and actions cause the person to project their stuff onto ‘others’ or the ‘world’ and he/she will eventually crash into a Tamasic state.
When Rajasic, One tends to speak too quickly, act too quickly, drop things, and have accidents. One will be convinced that joy is in the object...witnessed by the fact that one chases after them. The mind is turned outwards.

When tamas is operating, the person will be above all, in denial. blaming, holding onto the past using it as a reason to justify action or inaction, or as an avoidance strategy making excuses for why he/she can’t be honest or make decisions. rationalising, procrastinating, living in the future, inability to wake up or get out of bed in the morning, lethargy, complaining, dull, feeling a victim with the wrongs of the world on his/her shoulders, unloved or that the ‘world’ is unloving or a bad place, Here the mind is clouded, dull.

When sattva is operating, the person is peaceful, calm, clear thinking, balanced, and
compassionately honest. Not the sort of honesty that insists on pointing out the `other`s` faults...for their own good of course !... no matter how hurtful that may be.
loving, secure, taking appropriate action and the difficult one.... owning all projections, are signs of a sattvic mind.

Making the effort to clean up one`s karma, dispassion...another hard one, particularly about one`s own thoughts and feelings, being unswayed by the opinions of others, gratitude, knowing one doesn`t control the result of one`s actions and why, satisfaction, a feeling of wholeness and completeness...all signs of a sattvic mind.

The gunas work in such a way that sattvaproduces more sattva, rajas produces more rajas and the same with tamas.

The problem with rajas and tamas is that they are inseperable...joined at the hip as it were.
For instance, when rajas is operating, the mind will be projecting outwards and tamas
will be right there to deny it. when rajas is not in `ascendance`, there isn`t some sort of void left in it`s place. the something that `fills` that `space` is tamas....assuming the individual has not realized his/her true nature.
They are the opposite sides of the same coin. They are just the programmes that run the individual. The gunas just being the programs that run the individual and the rest of creation.

They are a problem if you do not have the knowledge of how the apparent reality functions, or if you identify with them. ie, if you find yourself saying “I am rajasic
or I am tamasic", you are identified with them. The person may be rajasic/tamasic but you, awareness, are not.
When you said ...

Of course I'm not having a so called sattvic mind all the time. And that is because I don't want to. I have discovered a "method" to make my mind utterly rajasic and that state of mind I ride like as if it's a tiger. It's fun for me.


I found that amusing because, if you "discovered a method to make your mind rajasic" , what was state of mind prior to that ? Tamasic or sattvic ? It wouldn`t have been sattvic as there would be no need to make it rajasic...your mind would have been clear and happy.
Why say " And that is because I don't want to. " ? the gunas are your conditioning. you don`t get a say in the matter unless you are speaking as the self. I just thought you had the tail wagging the dog at that point.

And what is it good for in a broader sense, like being a part of a community and having a satvic mind?


If you have a clear, peaceful and loving mind, you see the wider picture...the panorama of non duality and the world no longer is a problem to you. by the same token, you will no longer be a problem to the world.
There really isn`t something real called `a community`. it`s just a notion or thought but, if there was, and everybody developed a sattvic mind, what kind of community do YOU think it would be ?
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Re: -

Postby Anja » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:52 pm

Thank you for the explaination.

If everybody would have a satvic mind there would be peace and harmonie. No war, no agression towards others. Then, and only then, humanity can make real (spiritual) progress as a species, all together, nobody excluded.

But in order to expose and point out what is wrong in certain view-points, keeping in mind what I said before, one can use rajas (forward movement) to point out flaws in certain concepts certain people propagate and "teach" as means for peace.

It is important to have people who enjoy a satvic mind constantely. They can, and do spread out a vibration (for the lack of a better term) than is beneficial for those who are near them.

If there is any valid advice, given in the Bhagavad-Gita by Krishna, it is this, I think: Not letting asuras run amok and run the kingdom by being passive and not doing anything about it. The dharma of a warrior is to fight the good fight.

And in my eyes that is meant and spoken in the spiritual realm, not falsely taken as a justification for actual war and violence. It is a war about concepts. Not a war that is supposed to be fought with real weapons, other than the mind.
Anja
 

Re: -

Postby Stan » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:56 pm

Jeez, you can`t turn your back for a minute here of late !

Anja. sorry but i`m banning you for 30 days. You are far too often off topic with your posts. You need to make posts that are in keeping with what the forum is about ie vedanta and topics that have a definite relevance to vedanta. You will be `unbanned` in 30 days and may participate again if you abide by the forum rules and aims.
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Re: -

Postby Stan » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:13 pm

@ Rick.

Hi Rick,

I have just banned Anja for 30 days or permanently if she doesn`t confine her posts to the spirit and aims of the forum. it gave me no pleasure but I hope it resolves the present impasse we have found ourselves in.

By the same token, can you cut out the abusive way you address people. It`s not only Anja i`m thinking of. let`s see if we can start again. thanks.
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Re: -

Postby Rick » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:10 pm

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Re: -

Postby Rick » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:44 pm

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Re: -

Postby Rick » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:43 pm

This is a dualistic community
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Re: -

Postby Stan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:17 am

Hi Rick,

You`ve just raised quite a few new points, some of which i`d like to answer.
I`m a bit pressed for time today but i`d like to turn to a subject you raised as it`s key to gaining self knowledge.... namely `The Gunas` also known as the ropes.

As we as individuals are little more than the Gunas, it`s imperative to have an intimate knowledge of them and how they relate to us as awareness.

I`m hoping you have a copy of James` book, Essence of Enlightenment ? or at least the previous book..How To Attain Enlightenment. It`s essential reading. I would most strongly recommend you buy the Essence book if you havn`t got it.
Both books have a full chapter on the teaching of the Gunas.
Ted Schmidt`s new book `Self Knowledge` also has a chapter on the Gunas.

I have just posted a link to the full chapter 10 of the Essence book which is purely about the teaching of the Gunas. It includes an audio teaching that goes with it.
Not too surprisingly, you will find it in the chapter ten section of the forum`s index page.

You said ....

I believe there is one more practice to deal with the Subtle body, and that is monitor the intake of thoughts being dumped in there from the Causal body. There is a mechanism that creates false connections between phenomena and creates a filter that dulls the mind. I think Jung called this aspect the "shadow" but I can't be sure?


You`re not wrong there Rick, that mechanism is called Maya ! big drum roll here...Maya is the most difficult teaching of all and is the linchpin that holds together the understanding of the relationship between awareness,the Individual, the world and the Gunas. It`s the key to `cracking the code` and full assimilated understanding of this teaching is tantamount to moksha...self knowledge, freedom.
This teaching is called Isvara-Jiva-Jagat Identity (Aikyam) aka The four orders of reality.
Here is a link to the teaching...

http://shiningworld.com/site/files/pdfs/publications/articles/Isvara_Jiva_Jagat_and_the_Gunas.pdf

The `shadow` aspect of ourselves is all that negative stuff in ourselves that we would rather wasn`t there and refuse to own. It is down to the avarana or `covering/clouding power in Maya. apart fom this covering/hiding power in Maya, there is another one called vikshepa or projecting power. they work together...projection and denial.

Here are some more links to Ramji`s teachings of the Gunas. I will try to get back to you when time frees up for me Rick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atvQYBE9ZGo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRMh3uT1tv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS55tjdGYn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNvGMg3kZRo
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