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Chapter XIV: The Enlightened Person

What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Enlightenment Sickness, A Fallen Yogi, The Blades of a Fan, Self-Realization/Self-Actualization, The Self-Actualized Person.

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What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby georgschiller » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:44 pm

Hi guys,

in another thread on 'enlightened jerks' we came to the discussion of what moksha is.

From my understanding knowing I am limitless awareness without a doubt is equivalent to liberation.

Purifying the mind and transforming all binding vasanas into unbinding vasanas is either happening before Moksha or afterwards.
It is not liberation in my eyes because
(1) we never know when and how vasanas arise and
(2) we can have a purified mind but still are ignorant regarding our nature.

I know that it can get messy at this point because of the limitation of language (e.g. what exactly is a binding vasana?) but I think it is a good topic to discuss.

I think of binding vasanas more like constant vigilance which never ends.
That is why it is highly encouraged to keep the mind busy with spritiual practice, e.g. studying scripture, bhakti yoga, meditation, etc. isn't it?
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby Rick » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:49 am

I think the point of moksha is to actually create a binding vasana for resting as awareness. A vasana is a preference, a binding vasana is a preference that controls you - for example if I value weight loss but give into my vasana for donuts then the vasana needs work so that I eventually prefer to abstain from donuts. :roll: This means I am now the boss, not Isvara, and I live freely rather than being programmed by Isvara. The vasanas belong to Isvara, they don't belong to awareness. But God cannot exist without awareness, so as awareness you are the boss. Once you understand Isvara this understanding puts you above Isvara, you understand that there is only you here projecting a macrocosmic "happening". For me, this is enough liberation, to understand that I'm the only one here and that appearance is my story. However you might be a little more fussy and want something more lol

There is a teaching on what this is. It explains consciousness, vasanas, the macrocosmic causal body, I'm currently not educated enough and have only basic bits of the teaching, but the teaching is there and I'm sure that it can be verified in your own experience in time? But to say that you will never know the whys and whens of the vasanas is not true.
A purified mind is only a means to an end, it is for getting the mind still enough to create this binding vasana for liberation.

Some vasanas can't be overcome. I'm sure I heard someone talk about Chinmayananda kept approaching his guru about starting his Chinmaya Mission, but Chinmaya's guru kept encouraging Chinmaya to sweat it out and cook those seeds. But it turned out the vasana was going to win and the rest, as they say, is history.

Which on the grand scheme of things is a bonus for like likes of you and me, because if there was no Chinmaya Mission there would be no Shining World. It's scary to think about, but it just goes to show some vasanas are good things, these binding vasanas are called your "svadharma".

By the way, I kind of see James Swartz as the "next" Chinmaya, Chinmaya was responsible for translating all the teachings into english and this is what he is mostly famous for. But James is also a star in that he has taken the teachings one step further and made them digestible and comprehensible for Western seekers.

And for this I am eternally grateful. Thank you Ramji and your binding vasana for teaching :D
Last edited by Rick on Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby Rick » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:12 am

Can you imagine what it would be like if Swami Chinmayananda had not had that desire to translate the teachings from Sanskrit into English and by default make freedom a possibility for the layman?

We would be stuck with Satsang with Mooji, Eckhart Tolle and Sadhguru...

Sends shivers down my spine :shock:

Another thing I thought of is your original post (from which I withdrew my comments because the discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with Vedanta) mentions some phenomena called spiritual bypassing. Again, as I mentioned in my first reply, this has got absolutely nothing to do with Vedantic moksha, discrimination, freedom etc. It's a popular psychology concept that you seemingly want to marry with Vedanta. God k does why, but the description of your "awakened" person in that post has nothing to do with what I have learned from James about what moksha is.

Moksha is steady knowledge, so there is no way a person is going to have anger issues with steady knowledge in place. Yes, there might be some indirect understanding that the I is awareness, but as long as there is binding vasana there then moksha is not the case. Again, as I said in my original reply to you the I in these cases seems like it has co-opted an experience and now thinks it is enlightened. As far as I'm aware this is called enlightenment sickness. It's got nothing to do with Moksha, but is more than likely a side effect from the experiential camp.

Please don't bring in concepts from others schools of thought unless you want to resolve them in light of the Vedic teachings. This is not a philosophy class, and Vedanta is not meant to fit into your human experiential worldview, were supposed to adjust out worldview to Vedanta, and judging by the language you are using you seem to want to get Vedanta to confirm your dualistic feelings. It's not going to happen. The only one who is creating "the enlightened jerk" is you, and you're perpetuating this nonsense because you are not the boss, you indiscriminately swallowed something that was presented to you. You ironically demonstarate exactly what slavery is, slavery to these concepts being thrusted on you from the outside.
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby Mira » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:49 pm

Hi Georg,
Thanks for posting another great topic :D.

Georg wrote: From my understanding knowing I am limitless awareness without a doubt is equivalent to liberation.

Purifying the mind and transforming all binding vasanas into unbinding vasanas is either happening before Moksha or afterwards.


I should have been more clear in my post on the other thread. My understanding is that you need both self-knowledge and rendering the vasanas unbinding for moksha.

The rendering of the vasanas unbinding can come before or after self-knowledge. And while, I totally agree that rendering the vasanas unbinding alone does not result in moksha (for the reasons you state). I also don't believe that having self-knowledge and a chaotic/agitated mind will result in liberation either.

Georg said: I think of binding vasanas more like constant vigilance which never ends.
That is why it is highly encouraged to keep the mind busy with spritiual practice, e.g. studying scripture, bhakti yoga, meditation, etc. isn't it?

Yes. This step is called nidhidhyasana and it is best to continue with it always.

A disciplined mind is so important for self-inquiry and for consummating self-knowledge. As Ramji once said to me, what is the point of self-knowledge if you cannot enjoy it the fruits of it? (meaning moksha)

I wanted to add: Moksha is such a precious gift, that like everything worth having one has to work hard to keep it :D. It is hard work indeed to have mental discipline, a simplified lifestyle and constant vigilance. But the true happiness (the only true happiness that exists) is so worth it.
Last edited by Mira on Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby Mira » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:52 pm

Rick wrote: The only one who is creating "the enlightened jerk" is you, and you're perpetuating this nonsense because you are not the boss, you indiscriminately swallowed something that was presented to you. You ironically demonstarate exactly what slavery is, slavery to these concepts being thrusted on you from the outside.


Rick, may I take the liberty of pointing out that you are not addressing Georg personally here :D. When you say "you", you are saying it figuratively. Like 'anyone' or 'one'.
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby Rick » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:23 pm

Mira wrote:
Rick wrote: The only one who is creating "the enlightened jerk" is you, and you're perpetuating this nonsense because you are not the boss, you indiscriminately swallowed something that was presented to you. You ironically demonstarate exactly what slavery is, slavery to these concepts being thrusted on you from the outside.


Rick, may I take the liberty of pointing out that you are not addressing Georg personally here :D. When you say "you", you are saying it figuratively. Like 'anyone' or 'one'.


Sorry, but I'm not speaking to Georg , nor am I doing any speaking. You should know this if you know who you are, yeah?

But there is one sure way to not attain Moksha and that is to continue to reinforce ignorance by continuing to interpret reality on this transactional level claiming responsibility and assigning responsibility. Communicating in the same conditioned ways doesn't get you out of the conditioning.

Freedom means authenticity and confidence. It does not mean "happiness" as in constant happiness or pretending niceness and appreciation all the time.

So I'm assuming the practice of freedom is the practice of authenticity?
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby georgschiller » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:51 pm

Thank you Mira,

I loved your reponse so much that I even told it to my friend :)

Reading your words makes this forum so beautiful and worthwile :P

Love Georg :)
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Re: What is Moksha? Binding Vasanas?

Postby Mira » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:36 pm

Thanks, Georg! It's nice of you to say that.
I also enjoy your posts, especially your probing and insightful questions :D.
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