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CHAPTER IV: QUALIFICATIONS

Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householder

A Mature Human Being, 1. Discrimination, 2. Dispassion, 3. Control of the Mind, 4. Control of Senses, 5. Doing What Is Appropriate to Your Nature (Svadharma), The World Does Not Need Fixing, My Relative Nature, 6. Single-Pointedness, 7. Forbearance, 8. Devotion, 9. Faith , 10. Burning Desire for Freedom, A Qualified Teacher, Walk the Talk, The Grace of God.

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Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householder

Postby isaac » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:17 pm

Hello all!
I have only come to realize there is a forum on here. Once I have read the comments, I know I am in the right place. I have wanted to seek guidance on a situation but Isaac’s fear of wasting the wonderful SW teachers time with worldy issues has refrained me from doing so. I Have read what many of you have written I would love to hear from any of you with how the situation should be handle in accordance with the truth.

Many thanks to James, Sundari and everyone at SW. Grace brought me to you and of course, I have never looked back. Thank you Thank you.

There is a situation I would like input on. Please understand, I know the situation “I” experience is in the subtle body to which I am separate and the witness of. Yet, where I am stuck is, this world is here, Isaac has to live in it. What does he do.

I have difficulty determining what to do in the situation because I have identified in my studies of satsangs, RAM’s books and other sources of Vedanta, seeming contradictions on how one should act in response to the mithya world. Let me describe the situation to which I would greatly appreciate some input.

I would like to describe the person Isaac is married to. She finds the need to be under the influence of the “herbal Medicine” 3 or more times a day. She is not interested in the truth (which is fine) and resents it do to the fact it has “changed” “her” partner’s personality. Her interests are political issues, world issues, chem trails, GMO, organic etc and having the ideal physical body she desires. her discussions topics are typically the gym, working out, how the “bad guys” are out to get us, politics and whats wrong with the world. There is a lot more to be said but I think you may have a picture of her. I really am not trying to paint a horrible picture but highlight the aspects of the personality that are involved in making the situation a “situation”.

We have difficulty communicating, of course. Sometimes she asks me to answer a question truthfully, but gets aggravated when I answer a question with the truth of reality, so Isaac has to bite the tongue and contemplate on an appropriate response or give a white lie to get through the egg shells. She is not happy because, as she exclaims, the man she married is gone and this “new” one is here. It makes her angry and against Vedanta for the changes it has made. She thinks of Vedanta like all other spiritual stuff out there and anything I say she thinks is just talk. Unfortunately, Isaac is not in love with her the way she wants (She is missing the love she desires) so she is miserable but still wants to stay together in hopes I change and, as she claims, she made a vow to which she intends on keeping. I can respect that greatly and am holding up my end of the bargain at a cost of seeing her suffer a lot. She keeps asking me to change. She keeps saying that I, Isaac, can fix it in a day.

It has been over three years of issues. She is not happy, in fact miserable at many of times (she is also happy at times), I see the constant agitation Isaac is experiencing as well, the constant rise and disappointment that wants to come out but destroy it in the light of discrimination and truth. I am hindered from pursuing the knowledge at times because making a trip to see James would upset her. When she asks what I am doing and I reply studying Vedanta (what is done with most of the free time), I see the disappointment in her face as she tries to hide it.

What I think I understand:
1. A seeker should avoid this personality type (describe above) to aid in their quest for liberation and create a peaceful environment and mind to promote self inquiry. Yet it is Isaac who get slowed down in his journey and there is a space between Isaac (ego) and I, so does this really apply?

2. A seeker should follow universal dharma. In this situation, the dharma of husband and father. I financially support the family, raise the children and be a husband the best I can. I provide just enough to pay all the bills for a nice home and keep her as a stay at home mom which requires 60-70 hrs a week of work for Isaac. It is also karma and myself who has created all this action. I do my best to handle the wife and explain to her the situation we are in but it is met with disappointment and anger. I try to show love but Isaac does not have it for her. I do love her, very much as she is also the self but my love is not romantically there as she wants it.

3. A seeker should also follow his svadharma as a seeker which should at times supersede #2. I understand if something is causing agitation it should be remove to promote a peaceful environment and mind for inquiry. I can handle it because I know I am the witness of Isaac being not happy (ha... that’s sad lol). I also know all this is in me, the wife, the problems, the children this forum etc.. I am separate from these experiences as I am the witness of the thoughts, agitations, wife etc.

I am just staying the course for now, continually studying and discriminating which keeps me separate from it all. Isaac does his best as husband and father, work, sadhana and studies. Being the Self, none of this all matters and dharma is the key in the unreal reality hence why I am in the situation that causes Isaac a lot of grief. I think that Isaac thinks, once liberated everything will be fine.. she will turn around because I’ll know how to handle it better etc… wishful thinking becuase it is up to Isvara.

I stay with her because I think it is the right response, because Isaac made a promise yet both seem to be suffering. I just want to do what is right which is what I cannot figure out so, I abide in the self as much I can, and watch daily. Of course I bounce in and out all the time.

Turn of events... As I right this, we are now in discussion of separation. It is not going too well and talk of counseling has been coming up. Wow, to hear someone spout their ignorance at us will really be interesting. Does Isaac fight to stay with her for the potential for it to work or for dharma? Do I free him and her from this? Do we go to counseling (I can't imagine that but may be needed for her sake) Bare in mind, there are 2 little ones involved. 1 10 yr old boy from her previous relationship and "our" 2 yr daughter. I know it is all up to Isvara but Isvara is who is writing this ;)

Thoughts? I thank you for reading this in it entirety.

Om shanti
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby georgschiller » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:28 am

Hi Isaac,

good to see more people coming to the forum!! :) I read your post although it is quite a long one and there is the danger that i subconsciously missed some important points. Anyways my mind tells me that the issue of your post is dispassion and Karma Yoga.

But before you read further: Keep in mind that the two most stressful events is divorce and moving(according to Swami Dayananda) . This implies, in all circumstance prevent these two events from happening.
In case it can't be prevented then take up the task now and full-heartedly. Don't postpone them since it would just cause more (unnecessary) agitation and problems.

Dispassion means not being concerned with the outcomes of your action. Accepting results of one's actions. Offering your actions and the results to the best of the whole life and your surrounding.
This arguably is the most difficult thing in life. Some famous Vedanta master even said that enlightenment is nothing compared to Karma Yoga. Karma Yoga is by far the most difficult because we always want things to go our way (which is not always possible of course)!

For example, if you would be a 100% dispassionate person (in India they are called Sadhu's, they would be called homeless in the West) you would just walk away from the relationship because you realize it is causing too many problems. You would also be so dispassionate that you realize that somebody else will show up and make your partner happy. You would be so dispassionate that you give Isvara the task to take care of it.

Of course, only 1% or maybe 2% of the population could actually do this. Most of us cannot.

It is of course much easier to write about it then living through it. On the other hand life is sometimes though and requires a firm hand. If you want to live a life more in harmony with your "new" values then changes (which can be hard) are not avoidable.
The question is just do you need to change your whole life or can you work it out from within?

Maybe you should contact a SW teacher! Arrange a skype call?
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby Stan » Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:15 am

Hi Isaac,

I`ve been looking at what you wrote on and off for a few days now. I suspect you already know what you need to do but just need some extra confidence and clarity before you `jump`. I think Georg gave you a really good reply and I have my own take on your request of...." I would love to hear from any of you with how the situation should be handled in accordance with the truth. "

I have a couple of questions first, if I may ?
1. Do you indulge in the "herbal medicine" as you put it, as well as your wife ?

2. You wrote..." She keeps asking me to change. She keeps saying that I, Isaac, can
fix it in a day. " What exactly does she mean by this. What would she require you to do to fix everything "in a day" ? why don`t you or can`t you ?
I`m also wondering what she would say if you asked her to stop indulging in the "herbal medicine " ?

I`d also like to add my welcome to the forum to you. How did you find your way here ?. I ask as it`s still a work in progress and all input helps.
I couldn`t resist a last thought on what you said at the end....
" I know it is all up to Isvara but Isvara is who is writing this ".

If that`s true, then who are `you` ?
Best regards for now,

Stan. :-)
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby Mira » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:15 pm

Hi Isaac,
Welcome to the forum! It's wonderful to have new members. Thanks for your honest and heartfelt post. Marriage, parenthood and relationships are never easy terrain.

I'll write more later--once I've reflected on your post more. But (like Stan), I see that the possible addiction to 'herbal medicine' is likely a huge issue. Assuming it is an addiction, then that is a major issue that could change the whole dynamic of the relationship if it can be resolved. Perhaps you should have an open and honest relationship with her about it as a first step.

Do keep us posted and again, welcome :D.
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby isaac » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:39 pm

Thank you all for the warm welcome and the replies. It is very much appreciated.

I will try to address all questions and comments in this reply. In this response, what may seem like ignorance could be lack of proper explanation, feel free to point out any ignorance on my part.

This is one of those “no simple answer” situations. I would like to focus on Vedanta and role of a seeker as it relates to the situation rather than the situation itself.

George, thank you for the reply. I have taken your points into consideration and am contemplating what you have said about dispassion in this situation. At this point I seem to be just letting things happen and applying the karma yoga attitude while doing the best I can in my role. There is dispassion and then there is running away from your problems. It seems like is my ego doesn’t know what to do and wants to hear someone who abides in the self to just flat out say it all along knowing that the Brahmanista probably wont :). So I just “enjoy” the ride for now at what expense? Is there an expense?

The reason I raised the situation is I see the wife hurt/suffer and it is directly related to “me”. In fact, it is not related to me at all because it is her ignorance that is causing it (but she does not know that). So fine, I don’t worry about her suffering but then is that the attitude I should be taking to a person “I” made a promise to? Not sure if sitting back and watching is the right approach so I reached out for input. It will play out on its own in due time. The ego think it is weak to walk away as I should be able to cope with it yet the mind also think it can be hindering my quest for liberation. If I were liberated, would I need to leave her? That’s what I contemplate on. I think the answer to that question is what is being searched for.

Stan, thank you for the reply. I will do my best to answer your questions
Stan wrote: Do you indulge in the "herbal medicine" as you put it, as well as your wife?

Yes with the wife, once just before bed and evening studies. She introduced it to me early on in our relationship and I have used it since. Here is the egos reply to that. “I run 2 businesses of my own, work as a director in a 3rd, manage my parent’s properties (4th business) so my mind is usually spinning. I have found that it calms my mind and my studies improve greatly.”

My reason for mentioning that about the wife is not to point out that it as a bad thing or wrong thing (nothing is wrong) but more to depict her personality type. Would love input on my use because I have contemplated if it needs to stop. Is it hindering me in attaining the goal of liberation? I have tested this vasana by stopping for a while and monitoring the reactions. Other than difficulty sleeping, the craving was none existent. Why did I start up again? for the reason specified above and because I have not convinced the intellect something is wrong with it or it is causing harm. For now, it is a vasana I have been allowing as it seems non binding. Please, if you have input I would love to hear it.
Stan wrote: You wrote..." She keeps asking me to change. She keeps saying that I, Isaac, can fix it in a day. " What exactly does she mean by this. What would she require you to do to fix everything "in a day" ?

She means she would like the Isaac pre Vedanta. She has me encapsulated in this box of how I should be and act. The Isaac that would drink to get drunk for fun, the one that was interested in going to out to party, the one that would watch hours of TV with her, the one concerned with global issues and into conspiracies etc etc she calls it the fun or Old Isaac. I call in the extroverted Isaac. Now that I do not see the attraction in those objects I am too mellow to her I suppose. She hates that Vedanta is so important.
Stan wrote: why don`t you or can`t you ?

I have a hard time trying to be what I am not. I try to play like I am interested but hearing everyday about the gym and world issues have no attraction. It goes both ways because when I use to talk Vedanta to her, she felt the same. So I stopped and we have difficulty communicating. I don’t have desire for objects like I use to. My ignorance (not all) has been removed, destroyed in the light of knowledge. I'm sure you understand what the application of this knowledge does to a jiva. I can clarify if need be.
Stan wrote: I`m also wondering what she would say if you asked her to stop indulging in the "herbal medicine " ?

I don’t know if I have to much of an issue with it. She seems to have good control of her self on it and my ego loves it because she is a much friendlier person. Her response to that question is “ I like it, so why should I stop” same as her response to smoking cigs. She only smokes a couple a day (what I can observe).
Stan wrote: I`d also like to add my welcome to the forum to you. How did you find your way here ?. I ask as it`s still a work in progress and all input helps.

Thank you for the welcome. I have been studying Vedanta for close to 1.5 years every day. James has been a main source of this knowledge. I do not recall where on this site I read about the Forum (think it was a satsang) but it led me here. Once I started reading what people have written, I knew I was in the right place and around the right subtle bodies :) I think this forum is great!
Stan wrote: I know it is all up to Isvara but Isvara is who is writing this.
“I know it is all up to Isvara “: We do not control the outcomes of our actions.” but Isvara is who is writing this.”: The jiva is controlled by Isvara and the circumstances that has brought the jiva to this point to write this was care of Isvara. Basically, all desires and intentions are coming from the vasanas (tendencies) in the causal body which have been produced or fortified by past experiences of this jiva. This produces the likes and dislikes that drive this jiva to do (combined of course with the gunas).
Stan wrote: If that`s true, then who are `you`?
At this point I can spurt out the teachings as to what the book answer would be but in order to help me succeed in my quest for liberation, I will answer that with what I “experience”/know.

I am the witness. I am separate from this yet not separate from anything. Because of ignorance I seemingly have issues, yet I cannot “have”. I watch this jiva do, knowing full well “I” am not doing. I watch the vasanas at play knowing that vasanas itself is an object known to me. I am the supreme knower that cannot be known. I am knowingness itself. I give rise to the existence of all objects for without my witnessing it, it does not exist yet the objects are nothing but me (location of objects teaching). I am everything and nothing, I am the source of bliss, I am the truth, the vedas, I am these words, this knowledge and this world as it is in me…my awareness.

In contemplation when I try to figure out who I am … I always just ended up with …” I am”

Again, “being a seeker”, I am open to correction of my logic above.

Once again, thank you for reading.
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby georgschiller » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:31 am

If I were liberated, would I need to leave her? That’s what I contemplate on. I think the answer to that question is what is being searched for.


Right on 8-) That's the quintessence!
If you don't think you are liberated yet, then act as so you were!

You are already liberated, Isaac! You already have the knowledge that you are awareness illuminating the subtle body of Isaac! What is there more to know? So, act with the knowledge!

How would somebody act with the knowledge that I am awareness? This person would act with:
1) compassion (may all beings be well),
2) with patience (give others time to adjust to your new lifestyle),
3) with confidence (nothing can harm me -> I am beyond time and limitations)
4) with generosity (give others your time, spend time with them, try to find a common interest! ...)
5) with diligence (be aware of what you say, be nice and comfortable to others)
6) with tolerance (accept others as they are, try to find a common interest and if all fails then be honest and limit your exposure to these people for the benefit of all)
7) and if all fails then realize that life is a zero-sum game, act with equanimity!
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby Stan » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:17 pm

Hi, Isaac,

Many thanks for your considered reply. I would like to reply to you as I feel/hope that I may have something helpful to say.
Just at the moment, i`m struggling to recover from an illness so I probably won`t get back to you for a day or two. so best regards for now,

Stan.
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby isaac » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:26 pm

Thank you both for the reply.
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby georgschiller » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:48 pm

Hi Isaac!

how are you doing? How do things evolve?

Cheers :)
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby Stan » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:08 am

Hi Isaac,


Back again. sorry i`ve not been back to you sooner but my recent illness resulted in a rather tamasic mind. I thought i`d let it pass before replying.


If I may go over a few things you said in your original post....


"Please understand, I know the situation “I” experience is in the subtle body to which I am separate and the witness of. Yet, where I am stuck is, this world is here, Isaac has to live in it. What does he do."


"I have difficulty determining what to do in the situation because I have identified in my studies of satsangs, RAM’s books and other sources of Vedanta, seeming contradictions on how one should act in response to the mithya world. Let me describe the situation to which I would greatly appreciate some input. "


This is most certainly due to the mind being under the influence of tamas. The heavy clouding energy that makes everything seem obscure. it precludes the necessary clarity that only comes with a satvic mind. This is the reason for the "seeming contradictions" you experience.


What immediatelly came to my mind was the Bhagavad Gita where Arjuna is caught in an impasse and doesn`t know how to resolve it. His teacher leads him out of this war in the mind by showing him that he cannot run away but must stay and `fight`.

As Arjuna didn`t understand his teacher`s direct teaching, he was told that his option now was to do karma yoga. The majority of the gita is about karma yoga.


You have described the lifestyle of your wife as very tamasic and yours as very rajasic. I have no desire to make any judgments and you yourself asked to " hear from any of you with how the situation should be handle in accordance with the truth. "

You have given openly and courageously the details of your married life and I would like to comment further using the `truth` as taught by vedanta as taught in Shiningworld.


I`m using here satsangs by Sundari and James as a base for my comments ....

Isaac, you said.....
"1. A seeker should avoid this personality type (describe above) to aid in their quest for liberation and create a peaceful environment and mind to promote self inquiry. Yet it is Isaac who get slowed down in his journey and there is a space between Isaac (ego) and I, so does this really apply? "


James: "It’s not as straightforward as that. On the one hand, if you need money to survive you have to do some kind of job. If you do it in the karma yoga spirit, sattva will develop and you develop the dispassion required to live on the edge and do what you feel “in your heart.”


Tim: "I heard you say once that we could never achieve moksa unless we fulfill the karma we are sent by Isvara."


James: That’s right. If you have dispassion in the first place, the objects will not be a problem. You can’t have your cake and eat it at the same time. If you think objects are so wonderful, then indulge. You will be proved wrong eventually. Smart people act from knowledge, not desire. "

---------------------------------------------------

To gain dispassion, you need to have the karma yoga attitude towards everything and thereby develop the other qualifications to their fullest degree. dispassion being just one of them. This will definitelly not happen if a rajasic or tamasic mind is in place. you absolutelly have to develop sattva. There is no choice about it if you`re going for moksha.

Failure to do so just allows the petty vasanas to set in as your consolation prize . You name it, uppers or downers...the choice is yours. except that it isn`t. you are a prisoner to them.


You said...

" I financially support the family, raise the children and be a husband the best I can. I provide just enough to pay all the bills for a nice home and keep her as a stay at home mom which requires 60-70 hrs a week of work for Isaac.

" I try to show love but Isaac does not have it for her. I do love her, very much as she is also the self but my love is not romantically there as she wants it."


It of course takes two to make a succesful marriage and you have every right to expect some accomodation from your wife under the circumstances. presumably you`ve explored that avenue.

Romantic love..let`s be frank...is not something a spiritual adult should be chasing. It never lasts and always requires dependence. That is not real love.

To continue with the `painful` options...


Sundari: As I said before, dharma is a very difficult topic and impossible for one person to tell
another what their personal dharma is. Ultimately, the highest dharma is to commit to self-inquiry
into your true nature using the scripture as your means of knowledge. There is no other purpose
to life than to know who you are and so live not as someone identified with being a person or
someone who knows about the self – but AS the self.
There are specific dharmas for all the roles you mention above. If you are a mother, you need to
take care of the psychological and physical well-being of the children you brought into this world.
This is the dharma and duty of a parent and to shirk it will not bring peace of mind. As a
daughter/wife and moksa-seeker there are specific dharmas involved as well. You have a duty to
honour and respect the people who gave life to you – though not at the expense of your own
freedom and the dharma of your inborn nature. As a wife, you have a duty to uphold the contract
you made with your husband, whatever that is. If that contract no longer speaks the truth about
you, then it is your dharma to end it or renegotiate it. To continue in an adharmic relationship will
not be conducive to self-inquiry or peace of mind. If moksa is more important to you than anything
else, then the dharma of a moksa-seeker is to trust the scripture and take “I am awareness” as
your identity, until such time as there is no doubt about it."


" It is possible that on the personal level, in order to be true to our svadharma, we must sometimes
take actions that cause agitation and distress to ourselves or “others.” For instance, if we are in a
marriage we know does not support who we are, but we are afraid to hurt people by leaving, like
our children, for instance. I have been there. These are tough decisions and ones we have to
make ourselves. Our lives have to conform to the truth or we will not have peace of mind, so if we
are in a situation like this and faced with such choices, following the truth will always work out for
the best even though it may turn your life upside down. It may take time, but it will work out. It is
far more damaging to all concerned in an adharmic situation to remain in it than face the
consequences of ending it."


" If, on the other hand, we our duty-bound and cannot change our circumstance, then we have to
accept that this is prarabdha karma playing out and we attend to it as best we can with the karma
yoga attitude. You know the beautiful prayer: “Lord give me the courage to change what needs to
be changed, the strength to accept what cannot be changed and the wisdom to know the
difference between the two.”
I was faced with a choice long ago that I knew if not made it would destroy both me and my
daughter. I also knew that if I did make it, it could destroy both of us. But I knew I had to make it
and trusted my self and the knowledge. I made the hard choice and the results were catastrophic
for her and me at first. I was severely judged by many for my choice and the only two people who
really understood my choice were my daughter and me. But years later the results were and
continue to be astonishing, and we are both free of each other and all karma associated with our
“past.” It takes self-confidence, total trust, a means of knowledge we know is valid and have faith
in – and courage to make the right choices."


" Many spiritual seekers believe that self-knowledge is going to fix their lives and fix them. It will
not because Vedanta assumes that the mind is qualified and purified to receive self-knowledge. If
the mind is not purified, then yes, you have some work to do on the psychological level to clean
up Larissa’s stuff. Our “stuff” may not be ours but it sticks like you know what until we resolve it by
dissolving it in self-knowledge.
Vedanta, or self-realisation, is not going to fix your life but it can give you the tools to help you
deal with it, which is karma yoga. Karma yoga, when practiced properly, is really dharma yoga
because every action you take is dedicated to Isvara; it is a consecration. It is understood that
peace of mind only comes with the realisation that you are not in control of the dharma field, yet
in taking the appropriate steps to act according to dharma and then relinquishing the results,
peace of mind is produced. If you are not experiencing peace of mind by relinquishing results you
are not relinquishing results. It’s that simple – the doer is still there, afraid and small, still wanting
a particular result, frustrated and afraid because it believes it needs the result to be safe or whole
and is not getting what it wants."

-------------------------------------------------------

How many times have I heard.." You can`t get to the self by going around your stuff. you have to go through it".

or... James would say about people who wrote in saying that karma yoga doesn`t work... `there`s always a reason. it`s not the karma yoga but a non conforming lifestyle. something isn`t being done that should be done or vice versa. karma yoga can`t be used as a band aid to make on feel better by trying to stick the teaching on top of your stuff but not actually dealing with it.`


Having looked at the ending the marriage options...and you said you were talking about separation, it might not come to that and I have a very constructive teaching from James to offer that should very much help with the fighting for the marriage option.

You say that you have done much reading and studying of the satsangs and that going to see James is not an option. I wonder if you have bought any of Jame`s videos ? James says that people find that they are almost as good as being there in person....what with the re-wind option.

If you havn`t, I strongly recommend you buy the Bhagavad Gita vids and the new Narada Bhakti Yoga vids. I have not quite finished the Bhakti vids but I would say that they were almost tailor made for your situation as James talks so much `off topic` about the love problems in life.


I`ve transcribed the excerpt i`d like you to see below. I hope it`s of help...it would take a fair bit of skill, love and patience but, it might just be what the doctor ordered.

Wishing you and your family all that is good,


Stan.
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby Stan » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:14 am

Hi Isaac,

Here is the excerpt I transcribed from James` Narada Bhakti Sutras videos.

"
" everything that`s here, that you`re paying attention to, is actualy Ishvara...and knows that what you`re worshiping is Ishvara. then Ishvara is always looking after you.
Then how do you get to that state when everything is Ishvara ? It says..." All kinds of bad associations " .
Now I mentioned yesterday that associations with people...with tamasic and rajasic people is called Kusunga or Dusunga. ( could not find in sanskrit glossary ).


The satsang is association with Sat or with satvic people and people who are into vedanta or the truth.

But, very often you have a connection... like the husband or the wife of some person who you`re very dear to and you love but, they`re not as `evolved` as you are and they`re not on the spiritual`path`.

We`re not suggesting that you should just walk away from that relationship...particularly..that you should break it down, sell the house, have a divorce and do all that stuff necessarily.

Maybe that`s what you need to do but ...maybe it isn`t.

It`s never anything that the teacher should ever tell you.. BUT, there`s another way to avoid to avoid bad associations WITHIN relationships. That is NOT to relate to the person who you`re in the relationship with when they`re tamasic and rajasic . But you DON`T tell them !


You don`t say anything when they`re in a bad mood..a tamasic or rajasic mood.

When they`re demanding or obsessive about something. Whatever it is. just disappear ! Just discover some reason for why you don`t have to be in their presence..... and don`t engage in the conversation.

Just absent yourself physically and don`t return until they`re in a more satvic state. then, just communicate normally with them.


What that will do is that,...and you don`t tell them, ...you don`t say what you`re doing or anything like that...you subconsciously condition them to understand. understand ? that it only works, ..that your your relationship only works when they`re reasonable and satvic, peaceful and intelligent. It doesn`t work any other way for you. `cause you`ve got other things you can do, so you just exit when you see the energy going bad. even when you FEEL that the energy`s bad.

don`t engage with communication with them. AND..you`ve got to keep your mouth shut.


from the listeners..." you`ve got to tease them " ...laughter....


James continues... If you establish good relationships and understand that teasing is love...ok.

but if they`re in a bad mood, they won`t take teasing as love, no way....

So, this is the idea. you can `condition` people but be careful. You can`t condition them by telling them what the problem is. Nobody wants to hear that. They`ll just take it as a criticism.

It`ll get their backs up and it will just make things worse.


so what you do is just be sensitive to the energy. ( James goes on to give an example fro when he was young ). so with people, you don`t have to confront them because the message that we`re getting here ( from the scripture ) is that you should express yourself. As what ?

As who you are. you should have the confidence in who you are to show the world..who you are.

BUT, in a very humble, polite and decent way. This text is about self actualisation.


You need to express your divinity because you are Ishvara here. You are teaching the world. You have a duty to give back to Ishvara what he`s given you. He`s given you moksha, he`s given you non duality. He`s taught you who you are and Ishvara`s going to be very `pleased` when you express yourself as Ishvara. Not as this jiva with all his needs. you`ve got your jiva needs...they`re there but the whole sadanha is to slowly efface the jiva and just fully appear one day as fully Ishvara ! ".
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby isaac » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:00 pm

Hi George, thanks for asking.

This is a quick reply, probably add to it later.

I observe peace and Isvara in the home. All is well.

Stan, thank you for the time you have put into your reply. Your charity shines! I have been reading Narada Bhakti Sutras Vedanta Concise Version for Western Students for the past fews days. What a beautiful piece of work it is. I have always struggled with devotion but now it is clearer.

I have listened to Ram's Audios for over a year almost every day as well as watch his videos or read his books. I am a subscriber recently of the steaming video but am absorbed presently my current readings.

I will add more soon
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby Stan » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:12 am

Hi Isaac,

Thanks for the kind words, they are appreciated. :-)

It`s good to hear that things are going well for you at home. My parents divorced when I was a kid and my wife was never interested in following a spiritual path but everything worked out wonderfully ! I understand somewhat what you have been living through.
I`m glad to hear that you`re immersed in the reading of Narada`s Bhakti Yoga Sutras as devotion to Isvara is an often overlooked `missing link`. you`re definitelly `on the bus` when you get your devotion going. hope you get the vids...as and when. can`t recommend them enough.
Thanks for getting back to us with your good news and it`s really good to have you on the forum. All the best, Stan.
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby isaac » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:04 pm

Hi everyone.

When I stated I observe peace and Isvara I meant it from the point of view of the Self. I observe my subtle body and because I am observing my subtle body I know that I am separate from it which gives peace (I observe peace). I see Isvara in my wife, the objects and myself which also provides peace as that understanding provides a different viewpoint of "the situation".

The situation itself is still a bit tense and am doing the best I can without worry. I have booked us a 10 day vacation in hopes some alone time will provide us more clarity on the relationship or produce a common interest (I'm giving it a go George). It is up to Isvara, even how I react is Isvara so I am just letting it be.

I have been applying:
How would somebody act with the knowledge that I am awareness? This person would act with:
1) compassion (may all beings be well),
2) with patience (give others time to adjust to your new lifestyle),
3) with confidence (nothing can harm me -> I am beyond time and limitations)
4) with generosity (give others your time, spend time with them, try to find a common interest! ...)
5) with diligence (be aware of what you say, be nice and comfortable to others)
6) with tolerance (accept others as they are, try to find a common interest and if all fails then be honest and limit your exposure to these people for the benefit of all)
7) and if all fails then realize that life is a zero-sum game, act with equanimity!


I have also been applying what I have been reading in the Narada Bhakti Sutras and what I have read in your reply Stan. All of it is useful knowledge.

I just seem to get to the point where all of it disappears into me when I contemplate and peace arises. The situation is still there... but I am not and it is not. I need a better way to explain that :)

This forum is great... care of the people contributing and supporting it.

Thank you
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby isaac » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:30 pm

I think the important point worth mentioning is that this situation, this story of Isaac and his wife, this observed experience.... has helped propelled my knowledge.

I know the situation to be me, It appears in me, the situation, the wife, this forum, this knowledge. I witness it all. This is peace. Yea there are its ups and downs where I become extroverted and seemingly put aside the knowledge of my nature, but that I know and I am ok with now. I am ok with Isaac. In fact I am starting to love Isaac (he needs work ;) .. even the annoying parts of the jivanIsaac. Its funny, I purposefully do something annoying to someone (as a friendly joke but a poke at them).. of course it is not nice and before, I would have been hard on myself for doing it, but now, ha... its Isvara.

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
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Re: Guidance: Dharma, svadharma and titiksha as a householde

Postby georgschiller » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:59 am

Good to hear from you, Isaac! It sounds good what you are writing! Seems like you are getting along fine!
OF course, Karma Yoga and self-knowledge is a constant practice. Ignorance is hard-wired and sometimes difficult situations can bring forward some of the ignorance which has been hidden before.
It takes time until the knowledge is firm. At the point when the knowledge is firm we can let go of the Jiva's life and give the Jiva back to Isvara!

Here is a nice quote from the Enchiridion (Stoicism)
"Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and your life will be serene."
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