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Experience without an Experiencer
Susan: I will sit and write to you once I become clearer about what the hell I’m trying to get at.
You are right when you say that I am too identified with reflected consciousness, and maybe that is all that needs to be said. So when I ask a question about what experience is like without an experiencer… or, what will the “me” that is eternal be like when there is no body, mind or intellect?
Ram: Experience without an experiencer is just like experience with an experiencer, Susan. Experience without an experiencer means that you know that the experiencer isn’t you. That is all. The experiencer, Susan, keeps right on being Susan and having her various experiences, whatever they are – and you, the knower, knows that you are not her.
Susan: I know myself to be the knower of the experiencer and its experiences – I do know that, so what is the question?
Ram: The problem is that you don’t know what it means to know that you are the knower. It means you are awareness, not the object, Susan, that experiences what she experiences in your light. It means that you know that whatever Susan experiences has nothing to do with you. You are merely the witness.
Susan: I think I want you to tell me what “it” will be like when my body is dead, in the conventional sense. I can see that this speaks to my desire, once again, to understand in terms of experience.
Ram: Yes. The body is always dead, Susan. It is just matter. It is dead, but you think it is alive. It only seems to be alive because you, awareness, illumine it. You pervade it and it seems to live and move.
Susan: I ask myself, “What ‘it’?” If I am pure consciousness, am I swimming in consciousness??
Ram: No, you are the ocean. Susan swims in you. You watch.
Susan: It seems that there nothing to know and no one to know it?
Ram: That is correct. Now ask yourself who knows there is nothing to know and no one to know it. The knower and the known are just objects in you, awareness.
Susan: Anyway… if I haven’t given you a headache by now… I could go on… just kidding.
Ram: This is not hard for me to figure out. Your self-knowledge is not complete yet. You are getting close, but there are some gaps.
Susan: I love you, Ram, and I look forward to seeing you and your new bride this spring.
Ram: You will meet her. We are doing a weekend in Mill Valley, end of July. I love you too, Susan. You are me and I am you.