By Sundari
Sundari: If you know you are the Self, why do you have to do inquiry into the Self?
Don: That is the point. My knowledge isn’t firm yet. I’d say that I have indirect knowledge, but not (fast and firm) direct knowledge yet. I realize that these questions are coming from the jiva, but then again, Vedanta IS for the jiva, so I guess I am looking for some further guidance to get out of this pickle (the jiva looking for guidance which I know is futile)
Sundari: Good for you, that is discrimination in action. Yes, moksa is for the jiva, but what is the jiva? The next step is to assimilate that the Jiva is the Self, satya, because there is no other option in a non-dual reality. The body/mind is mithya, so what stands in the way of this fact assimilating is ignorance, Maya, the hypnosis of duality. Once this fact does assimilate, you see that even mithya disappears because everything resolves into satya as it is the only non-negatable factor.
Taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness sometimes turns out to be more than a little tricky because it is so subtle. The split mind watching itself has a slippery tendency to claim to be Awareness. But is it ‘unfiltered’ Awareness or is it an ego-delusion? How to know, and how to deal with that? Taking a stand is done with the mind and can lead to a kind of self-hypnosis that makes the Jiva think it is the Self without the full understanding of what it means to be the Self. Of course, based on logic alone, (is there an essential difference between one ray of the sun and the sun itself?) the jiva can claim its identity as the Self—but only when its knowledge of satya and mithya is firm, meaning, direct.
The practice of taking a stand as “I am Awareness” does not give you the experience of Awareness or make you Awareness because you are Awareness. It negates the identification with the jiva as a conceptual person (body/mind). This is an important point, make sure it goes in. When the conceptual jiva identity is negated, the inquirer should be mindful of the Awareness that remains because negating the jiva produces a void. Nature abhors a vacuum. Many inquirers get stuck here and depression can set it if they cannot take the next step, which is understanding that the emptiness of the void is an object known by the fullness of the Self, the ever-present witness. Or, at that time, many inquirers ‘start’ to experience as Awareness and make a big fuss about it even though you have only ever been experiencing as Awareness all along!
So, the discrimination between jiva’s experience of Awareness and the Self’s experience of Awareness is essential. The Self’s experience of itself is qualitatively different from the jiva’s experience of the Self as an object or as objects. It is one thing to say “I am the Self as the Self and another to say it as the jiva (ego). This realization may well be a painful moment for inquirers who are very convinced that they are enlightened without knowing that they are only enlightened as a jiva, as an ego, not as the Self.
Claiming you are the Self is natural and ordinary, there is no big deal about it because it is the only fact that is absolutely true, never changes, and cannot be denied, only forgotten. Claiming you are the Self as an ego is a big deal because there is the belief that you have added something to yourself, and it makes you (the ego or conceptual jiva) special in some way.
Lon: You said: ‘Whether the body is in pain or in bliss has nothing to do with you. The body may not be real, but it has an apparent existence, so ‘you’ experience it either in health or in pain there is no escape from that’
Do you mean “are aware of” rather than “experience”? – my understanding is that AWARENESS (ME) doesn’t experience anything since reality is nondual? – or maybe you are referring to the small ‘you” that experiences?)
Sundari: The Self is the non-experiencing witness of the experiencing entity, the conceptual jiva, so yes, the Self does not directly experience anything. But seeing as this is a nondual reality, the jiva can only experience anything thanks to the presence of Awareness. The question is, who does the karma (experience/suffering) come to? As I said previously:
As health or illness is a result of karma, if we super-impose what belongs to Isvara onto the individual or jiva then we are thinking as a person (ego), not as Consciousness. This means that you think the karma comes to you and therefore the suffering belongs to you (body/mind)—because you are identified with it. If you know that you are Consciousness, you see the suffering taking place in the body/mind (Subtle Body). So, you are free of suffering, both mental and physical.
It sounds like you are saying that if the jiva is the Self, it should not experience pain. As I said previously:
Self-knowledge does not immunize the body/mind against physical pain, it just puts it in perspective. The body is a counter across which experience is transacted, all experiences good or bad are mithya, they have a beginning and an end. Discriminating satya from mithya 100% of the time is freedom.
Lon: Yes, this is where I need help. What can I do to discriminate 100% of the time? I feel like I am in the firefly state where I understand it clearly, but there is a gap between that understanding and “actualization”.
Sundari: Make sure you follow the methodology of the scripture as it is presented in all the teachings on Shiningworld, especially James’ books, and the free online courses. Discrimination takes place thought by thought and takes as long as it takes. It involves taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness and seeing everything that appears in you as an object known to you, even physical pain. It will not make the pain (rajas) go away for the body, but it will allow you to use sattva as a grappling hook to be objective about it.
As stated, when the body experiences chronic pain, there is no point denying it. The point of understanding that nothing in the mithya world is real is not denial. Denial will not make mithya (the effects of ignorance or duality) go away. Only knowledge, the ability to discriminate the Self from the objects that arise in you, will mitigate physical or mental pain by seeing it as not-Self.
Don: Yes, here again, is the problem since when there is “apparent” chronic pain, there seems to be no access to that “ability to discriminate”
Sundari: As previously stated, there is no doubt that it is hard to discriminate between what belongs to you as the Self and what belongs to the body/mind when the body/mind is in pain. That is the work of self-inquiry, I am afraid. No magic bullets, just knowledge.
Lon: I just don’t “know that I am Consciousness” yet (i.e., my “knowledge”) isn’t firm yet.
Sundari: If you know that you do not know, don’t you know? You do know that you are Consciousness, you just have some work to do to fully assimilate what that means. You have indirect knowledge that you are the Self, so stick with the inquiry and apply the teachings. Take the pain in the karma yoga spirit and offer it up on the altar of karma yoga, to Isvara, who is the one and only giver of all results.
Don: This is where I get confused. I realize that this statement is for the jiva and then the mind says “what can I “do” to cultivate “the right attitude and Self-knowledge”. I know on one level that I am not the doer, but until I am firm in Self-knowledge, then surely there is something for this jiva to “do” in order to cultivate that attitude??
Sundari: Do you see the duality of your thinking here? How can you be ‘in Self-knowledge’ if you are the Self? Self-knowledge is not an object to obtain, it is who you are. You cannot obtain it because you already are it. As stated, you just have some confusion and ignorance (duality) in the way of appreciating that fact.
As the jiva, the dharma or ‘doing’ of illness is to take appropriate steps to look after the body, to manage pain whether it involves medication or lifestyle changes, and to employ these methods, in the karma yoga spirit. Meaning, you surrender the results to Isvara. And if you feel miserable because the body is miserable, that’s OK. You know it will pass, it is not you. When James is sick he is like a bear with a sore head, best left well alone!
The jiva lives in mithya and must live and abide by the laws that govern the Field of Existence. The universal laws of karma are known only to Isvara, but we do know that we must follow dharma in all situations. Remember the body belongs to Isvara: it is prakriti – matter, made up of the 5 elements. The momentum of past actions, prarabdha karma, which is Isvara delivering the fruits of jiva’s actions, plays out as long as the jiva is alive. When prarabdha karma is finished, the body dies. Ultimately, the body is designed to break down and return to Isvara. And that has nothing to do with who you are as the unbreakable Self. So take the little and big pinpricks of life and remain steadfast in Self-knowledge.
No matter what we do to take care of the body, whether we like it or not, the Field of Existence alone determines the result. It is possible to take the right action with the right attitude and still get a result we do not want because the Field of Existence or Isvara considers what is in our karma account as well as the needs of the Total. Sometimes they coincide and sometimes they do not, but the needs of the Total always come first. Additionally, there are so many factors in the field responsible for the smallest of actions/outcomes, it is impossible to know what really works or doesn’t. Mithya is a complicated place due to the ever-changing influence of the gunas.
Surrender to Isvara means that we can love our karma whatever it may be, because it comes from Isvara, and we share the same identity with Isvara as the Self. So, loving your karma is devotion to the Self. I know it is hard now, but if sattva, peace of mind is the aim, taking your karma as a gift will be the attitude you bring to everything. Sameness of mind is the essence of sattva.
There is no point railing against our karma, what good with that do? It will only increase the suffering. The whole point of suffering is to free the mind of identification with the Subtle body. Things happen or seem to happen as they must in the dream of mithya, it is a perfectly ordered system. Only Isvara, who is behind it all is omniscient and can see the whole picture. But for you, the Self, nothing ever happens.
There are illnesses that are not the result of one’s state of mind and are not under the control of the individual. Take Ramana for instance: he was a great saint who lived a pure, sattvic life and had a great state of mind, yet he died of cancer. There is no avoiding the fact that our bodies are part of our environment and not separate from it. There is a constant flow of shakti from one to the other, positive or negative. We ignore the laws that run the dharmafield at our own cost. Ramana did not care about his body or its state of health, he was a great saint. For most of us, we do care because a body in constant pain is very hard to ignore and a great burden to bear.
But remember that Isvara is not a person doling out good or bad stuff, it’s an impersonal mechanism that delivers the karma due to the jiva. How we respond to the karma is what matters. Accepting everything that Isvara hands out to us is worship of Isvara. If you are identified with the CONCEPTUAL jiva, which you are here, then the karma comes to you, and that is very tough. If you know you are the Self, you observe the karma playing out for the body/mind but are not identified with it. This is not easy, but it is your only real lifeline. Applying the knowledge means some mind (guna) management and karma yoga are required.
Don: Thank you very much Sundari. Please let me know then if I have this right:
1. All these questions and requests for guidance are coming from the jiva
Sundari: Yes, but then as stated, the jiva is the Self, because this is a nondual reality. The questions are coming from ignorance of this fact, Maya.
Don: 2. The human condition is an identity crisis. I either take myself (erroneously) to be the jiva (experiencing entity) or I know myself (in reality) to be limitless, non-dual, pure awareness. That’s it. One or the other.
Sundari: Yes. You either identify with the body/mind (egoic small conceptual self) or the Limitless, ever-present, unchanging, unconditioned, whole, and complete Self.
Don:3. When I do inquiry (i.e., discriminate, run the ‘karma, bhakti, jnana’ yoga’s, stand in awareness as awareness etc..), I endeavour to do this without the expectation of a result (i.e., experience), but rather, as I do this more and more, then identification with the jiva is lessened (i.e., ignorance) and true nature (i.e., awareness) is revealed.
Sundari: Yes, correct. Who does the ‘I ‘ refer to you in your statement? Karma yoga is the key, as it involves trusting Self-knowledge itself to do ‘the work’ of removing ignorance.
Don: (Notice I didn’t say “my” true nature since that would suggest a “subject/object”, yes?)
Sundari: Why would you not claim your true nature as the Self if you know you are doing so as the Self? Saying ‘my’ in this case is not personal, it is the recognition that there is only one ‘my’. The subject/object split only applies if you think you are a jiva (ego) and you think that Self-knowledge is an object to obtain. If you say ‘my’ as the Self, you recognize that everything is you and ‘belongs’ to you because everything has a dependent existence on YOU.
Don: 4. When the jiva experiences chronic pain and there doesn’t seem to be access to inquiry, then just “ride it out” and continue inquiry when able.
Sundari: Yes, all answered above. The body/mind experiences pain and the jiva who is the Self takes appropriate action, entrusting results to Isvara.
Don: 5. So, to encapsulate… if the jiva is looking for something to do in order to Self-Actualize (an oxymoron maybe, but an honest Vedantic inquiry?), then it should do inquiry every day, more and more until eventually identification with the mind/body complex (i.e. ignorance) is lessened and the true nature of awareness is eventually revealed.
Sundari: Correct because a true inquirer understands that though the mind must apply itself to the teachings and they must translate into the life of the jiva, there is no doer other than Self-knowledge itself. No action taken by a limited entity can produce a limitless result, except for self-inquiry because it is undertaken in the karma yoga spirit, and the end result is Self-knowledge, which is limitless.
Don 6. Basically, keep doing what I am doing, let Vedanta do its thing (i.e., I am on the bus), and don’t worry about a result?
Sundari: Just keep up the good work ,and as stated, trust Self-knowledge to do the rest.
Contemplate this saying:
The steps to ‘get there’ are the qualities of ‘being there’. Translated, this means that you are never not the Self, and there is nowhere to get to because there is nowhere you are not. You are already ‘there’.
Here is one of the greatest of all great sayings in Vedanta, because it captures the essence of the teachings:
Brahma Satyam Jagan Mithya Jivo Bramaiva Na Parah. Memorize it.
It means:
I, the Self, am limitless Consciousness and the Jiva is non-different from me.
Much love
Sundari
