Dear Sundari,
When I first heard about Vedanta, I immediately felt very enthusiastic about it. I started reading short articles and watching videos of James daily. I’ve watched all the introductory, intermediate, and advanced videos offered on Shining World. They are great! I read your book, “The Yoga of Relationships.” It’s the best book I’ve ever read. I absolutely love it. I also watched the 3 satsangs you gave recently. You did great. Thank you so much! I’m really looking forward to the book you’re going to publish.
Sundari: Thank you so much for your kind feedback, I am so happy to hear that Vedanta is working for you and that you enjoyed my book. Good for you for signing on to the teachings, your enthusiasm is a great advantage as an inquirer.
Erin: I have a lot of time to reflect on the teachings. I practice karma yoga. Despite all of that, I am still struggling with an issue I can’t seem to resolve on my own. I hesitated a long time before writing you. I wonder if you can help me out. A while ago I met someone who also happens to be a Vedanta teacher. During the first lesson, he said he felt very irritated about his wife. He added that he hadn’t had the courage to leave her yet. During another lesson, he turned toward me and said: “I’m going to get a divorce from my wife, and we are going to get married.”
I thought that being a Vedanta teacher, he knows about the discipline of speech. So, I took his statement personally. I believed him. I thought he knew what was meant to be. I started writing a series of e-mails to him with a lot of personal and emotional stuff. (At that time, I didn’t know yet that Vedanta teachers aren’t interested in your personal stories.) He didn’t reply. I kept sending e-mails. After about 8 e-mails he did reply saying that my e-mails were inappropriate and not appreciated. If I didn’t stop writing him, I would no longer be granted access to his lessons. So, I stopped writing.
I continued attending his lessons. Due to corona, the lessons stopped. I had no more opportunity to see him. From time to time, I send him an e-mail with questions about the teachings. He gently replies. I feel so much love for this man. I miss him a lot. I think about him almost constantly. That has been going on for more than 4 years now. Sometimes it’s driving me crazy. I practice viveka. I know the joy isn’t in the object. I practice karma yoga and nididhysana. Nothing helps. I keep thinking about him. The moment I open my eyes I think about him. He often appears in my dreams. James says “In Vedanta, we do as we say.” That’s what I expect from this teacher, but he’s still married to his wife. I fully experienced what it means that life is a zero-sum game. I’ve had moments of ecstasy and moments of tremendous suffering. Is there anything you would recommend to end this suffering?
Sundari: This is a common issue for many inquirers who though committed to inquiry, are still unconsciously looking for love outside of themselves. Firstly, it is not appropriate for a qualified Vedanta teacher to say something like this man said to you, especially not in a lesson. A true Vedanta teacher would not be in an adharmic relationship in the first place and would not be looking for love because they know they are love. Plus, a mature Vedanta teacher would always practice speech control, knowing how dangerous it is to play with people’s emotions. They are in a position of trust and are thus often put on a pedestal. An inquirer trusts the Vedanta teacher and what they say because they are supposed to be a mouthpiece for the scripture. The teacher must be impeccable because it is common for students to project their emotional longing onto a teacher they see as “special.”
Even if he was not being serious and was just venting in frustration, it is not appropriate behavior for a Vedanta teacher. A good teacher of Vedanta, and anyone who knows they are the Self, follows dharma to the letter; they are totally transparent, and always do what they say and say what they do. It is no wonder he ignored all your persistent efforts to get him to act on his statement as he must know it was adharmic. He obviously didn’t mean it, and he felt ashamed or embarrassed about it, choosing to pretend you are the problem. He clearly has some Jiva stuff to look at too.
Whatever the truth is about this issue on his part, the real issue is not about him. It is about you. Ask yourself why you were so ready to believe him and why you cannot let go of this desire when it is clearly not going to come to fruition. Why are you so fixated on having a relationship with him, or anyone for that matter, if you are truly dedicated to self-inquiry? As you must know, the main premise of Vedanta is to free the mind of its dependence on objects for happiness. If you assimilated what my book on nondual relationships said, you would be able to apply the teachings to your mind and see the problem for what it is: you don’t love yourself, and you are looking for love from an object. You say you are “practicing karma yoga, viveka, and nididhysana.” But who is practicing? Is it as an ego/doer, or are you applying the teachings as the Self?
I don’t doubt that you are a genuine inquirer and dedicated to your sadhana. But the love issue is a very deep samskara, one that must be seen and addressed with reference to the teachings. If it is not rendered non-binding, it will stand in the way of your access to Self-knowledge causing endless suffering. It is not easy to say no to it, and it could take a long time. I know how horrible it is to have a mind so torn and in bondage to desire, especially unrequited love desire. Most people have been through some version of this experience at some point in their lives.
Surrender the desire to Isvara in the firm knowledge that nobody can give you what you are after because you are whole and complete as the Self. All objects are value neutral, and the only value is you, the Self. See this experience as a teaching from Isvara that has nothing to do with anyone else, because there is no one else. This teacher may have flaws as a jiva and as a teacher, but he is no less the Self, as are you. Why chase what you already have? It will never bring you anything but frustration.
Erin: I feel very stupid and embarrassed about this situation. I definitely didn’t choose deliberately to have that kind of feelings for a man that isn’t available.
Sundari: None of us chooses to feel anything, all feelings come from the gunas or Causal body. They are not personal, but if feelings are in charge, we are guaranteed to suffer. So don’t feel stupid because you are not stupid. It is just ignorance of our true nature that makes us stupid because duality dupes us into believing that the joy is in objects.
Erin: I hope you won’t publish this satsang. I hope you can give me some advice.
Sundari: We anonymize and publish most of our satsangs because they are so helpful to other inquirers. I understand you are ashamed of this, but again, ask yourself why? It is not shameful to want love and chase it when you don’t know better. And everyone makes mistakes in this area of their lives under the spell of Maya until Self-knowledge is firm.
Part of the process of self-inquiry is being objective and dispassionate about your jiva conditioning. A free person does not mind being transparent about their jiva issues because they know the jiva is not who they are and they did not make it that way. Even if this teacher reads this satsang and deduces that it is about him, it will be good for him to take stock of his own ignorance and incorrect behavior. Ignorance is universal, not personal. All seemingly personal issues are common to all jivas.
Incidentally, it is not true that Vedanta teachers are not interested in your personal story. It is relevant if it is pertinent to your inquiry; we often ask people to tell us about their stories for this reason. It helps us to understand how ignorance is playing out in their lives and therefore, how to help them. As I said, nothing is personal. There is only one story, and it is the story all jivas share: beginningless ignorance.
Erin: Thank you for letting me tell my story and thank you for your answer. I don’t pretend I fully assimilated “The Yoga of Relationships”. I’m doing the best I can. For the last few weeks, I’ve been feeling rather confused, and I feel pretty exhausted. I guess I need some rest.
Sundari: I think your story is poignant. As I said before, it is natural to want love from others, don’t beat yourself up about this. And confusion is the predictable result of this kind of desire because the mind in its grip loses touch with reality. People do crazy things in the name of ‘love’. It is one of the most powerful drives in the human condition. I am sure you do need some rest. Give yourself some distance from this issue, take stock of the feelings driving you crazy and see them as not you.
Erin: I guess I kept on waiting for a relationship with him because I couldn’t believe he lied to me. I wanted to give him a chance to do as he said. I asked him what he meant by saying “I’m going to divorce my wife and I’m going to marry you.” He answered that he was very happy with his marriage and that it was just an example. I had a hard time believing that.
Sundari: It may well be that he is not lying, and there could be some truth to his claim that he was only using it as an example. Maybe he was attracted to you, but that does not mean he meant what he said other than to illustrate a point. That does not exonerate him from saying what he said to you. The job of a Vedanta teacher is to help inquirers objectify their feelings and understand their conditioning in light of Self-knowledge.
It is adharmic for a Vedanta teacher to abuse their position by projecting their unresolved emotional issues onto their students. But it is possible that you are projecting your love longing onto him because you are so attracted to him. Maybe you heard what you wanted to hear, not what he actually meant. It could be that you have made this into a far bigger issue (on his side) than it is in reality. As I said, when such intense desire clouds the mind, all discrimination flies out the window.
Erin: For the last few weeks, I observe a doer who’s very eager to apply the teachings.
Sundari: That is the root of the problem, not this man’s groundless statements to you. They just ignited a fire that was already burning, and that is what you need to put out, with the help of the scripture. It is natural for inquirers to start out as doers because they are coming from a place of duality. It takes time and great dedication to the scripture for Self-knowledge to do the work of removing all ignorance (duality) so that the mind rests permanently in its nondual nature. Don’t give up and don’t lose heart. You have the tools at your disposal in the scripture, use them.
I would recommend that until you have these emotions under control you stop all contact with this teacher. He may well be a good man and a kind teacher, but he is most likely not Self-actualized. But that is beside the point. In the end, the real problem is that you still believe love can be gained from another, which it cannot. That is the fine print, and there is no getting away from this fact. This is what the experience is showing you, and Isvara has given you the means of knowledge to end this dependence on and bondage to objects.
Erin: Maybe that’s why I’ve been feeling so confused. I admit I still believe a relationship can bring me happiness.
Sundari: The relationship issue boils down to a love/need issue, and as I said a few times now, it is one of the toughest ones to resolve for most people. The need for a relationship creates the biggest obstacle for self-inquiry because when the need is there, dependence is built in. That is why people enter relationships, they are seeking the other. From this point of view, relationships are the ultimate duality. What is your main goal in life? To have a man who loves you, or to be the love you are, which cannot be given to you or taken away?
As the Self, you cannot get more of that from anywhere or anyone. There is no need for any special condition or person to be present to experience this love ALL the time. But if the knowledge that you are the Self and not the jiva is not firm, then the mind is still under the spell of Maya, duality. The desire to seek fulfillment, to find what is missing, is still there, but disguised as a spiritual value, as in your case. There is still a separation between you and the objects of your affection.
There is still the feeling that love is a feeling, something to gain, to give, a special experience. In dualistic love, desire feels like love because when its needs and conditions are met, the mind is settled and blissful. When its needs and desires are not met, it is a veritable sea of storms, as you are experiencing right now. Your mind is confused and feels lost. Hence the drama and suffering in so many people’s lives thanks to the unmet needs, expectations, and disillusions in relationships.
As I say in my book, Love is not a feeling or thought. Thoughts/feelings are just the reflection of love, they are not actually love, just like your reflection in the mirror is you but is not you. Love as your nature means you are whole and complete and need nothing, it does not involve another at all. It is not a special experience, it is ordinary. ”Others’ are seen as the love you are. Love can be expressed as a feeling to or for ‘others’, of course, but if you know you are the Self, the subject, the object is loved for its own sake, not for how the object makes the subject feel.
Real love is free because it wants nothing and fears nothing. It is self-satisfied, totally confident. To share non-dual love is not really possible because it is not an object. You can only share something with someone if you see them as other than you. If you know you are the Self, you experience non-dual love with everyone all the time regardless of whether they love in the same way because everyone is the Self. It is not a sharing as such, it is just what non-dual love is and does. You are the same love, the Self. And all love is the same love.
People have asked me and James why we are in a relationship if we are free. From the jiva perspective, it seems like there are two of us, both with our jiva programs. What they do not get is that when you are free of the jiva and dependence on objects for happiness, you are free to have a relationship. But you are not in a relationship; it is in you. We are not identified with our jiva, even though we have the freedom to be a jiva because we are free OF it.
We are the Self, that is our identity, no fine print. How can the Self be in a relationship if there is only the Self? But not everyone is ready for or comfortable with that kind of freedom that nondual love is, though many in the spiritual world claim to want it above all else. But they are not aware of what it entails because they are not free of the jiva yet. They are still attached to its needs because they still have residual issues around the love need, so the jiva keeps tripping them up and prevents them from fully accessing Self-knowledge.
Having said that, I understand the desire for the special experience of loving someone who understands you and is of a similar mind. It is a longing many spiritual people have. I imagine this is the main attraction with this teacher, you feel attracted to him because you see him as ‘spiritual’. It is tempting to believe that this person could give you the fullness and satisfaction that you obviously still crave.
Ask yourself these questions:
What do you think you will gain that you don’t already have?
Why do you believe someone else can make you happy?
Right answers: Nobody can give you what you believe you do not already have. Nobody can make you happy, not permanently. This is just a fact. If you chase love in another you are looking for it where it cannot be found.
As we have said many times, most people don’t enter into or stay in relationships for freedom. They do so for emotional satisfaction, which is not necessarily the kiss of death spiritually but may well be. Relationships are samsaric preoccupations if they are based on desire and need. It is not that there is anything wrong with relationships or having a new and exciting relationship. Please take note of that. But there is nothing right with it either if the desire for love has the mind in bondage and dependence.
The real issue with relationships is what motivates them. If you are ‘in’ love or ‘in’ a relationship, you will be out of love and out of the relationship one fine day, even if you stay in the relationship. That is the law of karma. Desires that are not contrary to dharma are never binding. The real motivation for the attraction to this new relationship will be revealed if you answered truthfully the two questions I asked you above. Many inquirers who haven’t worked out the love issue, go for a ‘spiritual’ love relationship and then look for spiritual reasons to justify it. Sadly, there is no quick fix to the agony of duality. Discriminating between satya (that which is always present and unchanging, you, the Self) and mithya (that which is not always present and always changing, i.e., everything other than you, the Self) is hard. It requires eternal vigilance because ignorance (duality) is so hard-wired and tenacious.
I am not sure how much you understand about the process and methodology of self-inquiry. Maybe you do, or maybe you don’t realize that when you commit yourself to Vedanta, you are locked into a predetermined sadhana. You are no longer the boss. You must follow the steps for self-inquiry to bear the fruit of freedom from limitation and suffering. The whole point of self-inquiry is to bring that wilful, self-centered ego into line with scripture, which is Isvara’s words. If the love/need vasana tail is still wagging the dog, it is important to accept that fact and follow the program of self-inquiry to the letter, assuming the desire for freedom eclipses the need for love.
It is hard for many inquirers to see love attachments for what they are without making any excuses and adjusting their desires according to Self-knowledge, not the jiva’s conditioning. As an inquirer, your life must fit into the scripture, not the other way around. Unless you are a proper karma yogi, intimate relationships create bondage. It is all a question of how deep your commitment is to freedom from limitation. If you persist with this fruitless quest your self-inquiry will continue to be derailed by the all-consuming desire.
It sounds harsh, but we call the needy love vasana the “love whore” vasana, the almost zombie-like impulse to get love and attention from others. Assimilation of the primary lesson of Vedanta is difficult (the joy is not in any object), and most people are not suited for it. See this vasanas for what it is: a way to distract you and seduce you into tasting Maya’s sexy stuff just like the parable of Eve and the apple in the garden of Eden. You can eat the apple but know the cost. Everyone who wants freedom must pass this way, there is no blame. Maya sets up the game to trap us in this way. The only solution is the scripture, which says to hand over the vasana to Isvara while resolutely sticking to karma yoga.
Karma yoga is your main defence. It is a kind of need armor when the hungry love vasana pops up like an unwelcome cork in the ocean of samsara. Whack it instantly with the opposite thought: I am whole and complete and need nothing to make me happy. Do not hesitate even for a second. Hold tight to the lifeline of Self-knowledge like a deep-sea diver and keep discriminating. For self-inquiry to work and bear fruit, it must translate into every aspect of your life. It is knowledge in action taken in the karma yoga spirit. Perseverance and persistence are the name of the game when up against the formidable foe of need.
The teachings are clear on this issue, and my book spells it out. There is no fine print to freedom, you are either on board and committed to self-inquiry, or you are not. I cannot advise you on what is right for you. But if you cannot say no to this temptation of trying to fill your emotional void, then dive into it and give it your all. Make your experience and try to remain objective, though clearly not with this teacher as he is not available. Move on. But if you truly want an end to the suffering, then live with the understanding that YOU are what you seek. Your true nature always endures because it is the nature of life, it is not something we must work to become, gain, or give.
I am glad to be of help though I know what I impart is not easy to hear. I feel for you and the emotional dilemma you are going through. This is a big opportunity for growth from Isvara because deep, binding vasanas are coming up out of the jiva program to be seen and understood so that they can be negated. Remember that you are never not the Self, no matter how much duality clouds the mind. See your jiva’s conditioning clearly, but be kind to it, with all its flaws. The jiva may not be who you really are, but in essence, it is the Self because this is a non-dual reality. Discriminate between what belongs to the Self and what belongs to the jiva. Do not confuse the two.
You are beautiful, you are the Self.
Much love
Sundari
