Hello Chantelle, yes, we are starting to come out of lockdown though many restrictions still apply, especially on travel. Everyone is challenged at the moment with regards to how they relate to what is going on in the Field. It certainly is a big opportunity to apply the teachings and to see how much assimilation has taken place. Discrimination may seem hard at first, but there is nothing else that can make sense of this crazy world. Only Self-knowledge allows you to step out of the ‘the world’ (duality) and see everything apparently going on in the Field from the perspective of the non-dual Self. If you have non-dual vision, discrimination happens naturally and dissolves all thoughts about the world. There is no worry or anxiety about anything anymore because you know you are the Self and none of it is real. Until then, we must keep up with our sadhana, discriminating, applying karma yoga, meditating on the Self.
Chantelle: As usual you were right 🙂 – My preoccupations with philosophy were not because of ‘philosophy’ itself but seeking knowledge. A way to learn and think clearly, now I see it as the same as every seeker’s way. Some find neo’s, others esoteric stuff, and this jiva went ‘Spinoza’. So, I can put it on the shelf. Most of the time I can see (capture, let’s say) jiva thoughts and Self-knowledge thoughts. Very different.
Sundari: Much on offer in spiritual world is a mixture of ignorance and knowledge, and if you don’t know the difference, you will swallow ignorance as knowledge. The neo’s offer part of the nondual teachings but skip the teaching on mithya, which makes discrimination very difficult. Mithya may not be real, but if you do not understand the difference between satya and mithya, freedom from mithya is unlikely to obtain. It does not work to impose satya onto mithya. There have always been great thinkers in Philosophy and Spinoza was one of the more enlightened. But all philosophy is on the mithya plane because it does not have a valid and independent means of knowledge for the Self. Only Vedanta has the full teaching.
Chantelle: Not long after we emailed a lot became clear, something settled. It’s not gone, but a kind of dimness came back. So, I went back to listening, to hear again, and watch James’ videos. I had a bunch of questions I wanted to ask you, but it would be ‘too soon’ now, it seems.
Sundari: We are always the Self whether we are aware of it or not, nothing can ever change that. But, as I said to you previously, while there is still residual ignorance of our true nature before Self-actualization takes place, it is possible for access to Self-knowledge to flick on and off. It depends on binding vasanas, what the gunas are doing, how well the teachings have assimilated, and how well we apply them on a moment to moment basis.
Chantelle: Except this one, what is meant with earning Isvara’s grace? It sounds like ‘doing’.
Sundari: It does sound like a ‘doing’. We are always doing something, even doing nothing is doing something. So, ‘earning grace’ means the results of our karma. Isvara is karma phala data, the giver of the results of our actions. If I take appropriate action in a dharmic way and respond to life according to what Isvara is presenting to me, I do not create unpleasant karma and I reap the benefit: peace of mind.
Chantelle: I see the doing, mithya, ‘while’ satya, being, me, not jiva, yet is also jiva. Even ‘seeing’ seems not all that real, like the instrument to see belongs to mithya/Isvara. Can all this only be really clear if this mind is way more sattvic? I don’t want to speculate.
Sundari: Everything belongs to Isvara. The eyes are interesting instruments of knowledge because they are quite a good metaphor for the Self. Eyes make vision possible, but they cannot see themselves unless you are looking at your ‘self’ (body) in a mirror. The mirror for the jiva is the scripture. But the jiva’s environment is also a mirror. The clearer, more sattvic the mind (reflective surface) the more distinct are the objects in it. Even though all objects arise in Awareness, it is not as easy to see some objects as Awareness (such as a chair or a rock) because they are obscured by tamas. The point is, if the mirror (mind or reflective surface) is clear, the Self as the object reflected in the mirror can be clearly known as an object of knowledge/experience. In non-dual reality, experience and knowledge are the same. There is no obscuration in a clear mirror.
Applying this teaching to your life means taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness and seeing all the subtle (thoughts/feelings) or gross (material) objects that arise in the mind as not-self. It means dis-identifying with the body/mind as your primary identity and identifying with the Self. Holding the mind upon the reflection of the Self in a sattvic mind is a direct means to Self-knowledge by virtue of the fact that if the mirror is pure the reflection is perfect.
As for who is seeing, there is only one ‘seer’, the Self or Consciousness/Awareness. The Self is not a seer per se because it is the non-experiencing witness. It functions in two ways. One as the opaque witness or jiva (saguna brahman – with qualities) and the transparent witness (without qualities – nirguna brahman). The opaque witness is the mind/ego watching itself, and the transparent witness is the Self, pure Awareness. The Self is a seer that never began or ceases and is the all-seeing eye or “I” that sees only itself because there are no objects for it to see. It is self-effulgent as there is nothing but itself. Eventually, we must drop all these terms, even nirguna brahman because that implies saguna.
It would be more appropriate to say that the Self (Isvara 1), seeing only itself is that which knows the seer with reference to the seen, only when Maya is operating. The Self-aware Self appears as a seer; but it never actually is a seer, unless seeing refers to its own Self. Whereas, when ignorance is operating, the jiva thinks that the seer is different from the seen, the subject and object are different. Isvara 2 is also known as saguna brahman because it operates Maya (the gunas), but unlike the jiva, it is never deluded by them. When tamas and rajas arise in saguna brahman, then Awareness apparently becomes a jiva and is deluded by Maya.
Chantelle: Often, I get the impression that I cannot be jiva, at all, it’s impossible.
Sundari: Of course, you cannot be the Self and the jiva. You, the Self, are not the jiva, but the jiva is the Self. There is no other option because this is a nondual reality. Duality is a mirage, there is only the Self. The whole point of moksa is to negate the jiva and take your primary identity as the Self, 100% of the time. Though we dismiss the jiva as only apparently real (meaning not always present and always changing, unlike the Self, which is always present and unchanging) it does not cease to exist. Self-knowledge makes the jiva is as good as non-existent.
Chantelle: But is this karma-yoga? Yet, I have to do and respond, make decisions – plan and organize. And I leave the results up the Isvara, for all ‘I’ can do – whatever I, the person, may understand or not – is my best.
Sundari: We cannot not act, as I said above. Karma yoga is not about not taking action. What matters are: who is acting, how we act, and what we act for. Karma yoga means renouncing the idea of yourself as the doer and acknowledging that Isvara is the only doer. Worldly people, doers, do not practice Karma yoga. They believe that their actions alone bring them results, they do not understand Isvara or how the Field operates. They cannot see that it is impossible for any action to take place without so many factors in the field being present which are not under anyone’s control. Doers are always stressed and worried because life does not care what you want or don’t want. Isvara gives you what you need according to your prarabdha karma (momentum of past actions), and according to what the total needs. Karma yoga is like life insurance for the jiva because it removes the existential worry of being a ‘doer’.
Chantelle: It’s weird, ignorance is really a tough thing, and yet – it is not real. Like space. So, Chantelle thinks, I should meditate on the meaning of Om. So that jiva belongs to Isvara, or so that jiva knows it belongs to Isvara.
Sundari: Ignorance is beautiful, intelligent, and very tenacious, and yes, it is not real. Our personal ignorance, avidya, can be removed only by Self-knowledge, it is not endless. But ignorance (duality) is beginningless because it is a power that exists in Awareness. There is no problem with ignorance (duality); it only causes suffering when we do not know what it is and relate to it as though it is real. Freedom is discriminating satya from mithya 24/7.
Self-inquiry is not meditation. It is subjecting the mind to Vedanta and the application of Self-knowledge to your life. But meditating/contemplating the meaning of Om (if you mean the Self) is part of self-inquiry, if you are doing it properly. Who is OM, to you? Why not meditate on the one who thinks it must meditate on the meaning of Om? Meditation can pose a problem if there is a meditator. Why not just be the Self by taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness?
Chantelle: Straight to the point: every time I consider/think, that God does not exist, my mind clears up and is calm. Then the I-thought eases out. It stops fighting because there is nothing to fight against. Creation, or; whatever I see just shines. God again; but unreal, yet fine. Beautiful, quiet – deep in one way, hardly there in another. This is new, in some sense but then again, it isn’t. Sometimes a fear kicks in; ‘you should not remove god like that!’
Sundari: “God’ is another word for the Self, Existence, appearing as form. You cannot get rid of God because there is only God, the Self. It all depends on your interpretation of the word “God’. If you are referring to the dualistic religious God, that is what you need to investigate because it is a very limiting idea. When we surrender the jiva to ‘God’ as Isvara 2, we do so as the Self, knowing that everything dissolves into me, including God/Isvara. Devotion to Isvara as God is devotion to your Self. It is the essence of karma yoga because God/Isvara is the controller of karma. A very different approach to the religious idea of God. It produces the most prized experience for the mind, gratitude and peace of mind.
There are three stages of God Worship. If I mature past the first, childlike state of religious belief and do not fall into agnosticism or atheism (which are still both belief systems), in the second stage I worship God free of doctrine and belief, in everything and everyone, including nature. I see that I am perfect as I am created, and I do not need to be ‘saved’. I follow dharma and live a righteous life not because I fear punishment but because I understand the rules of life.
In the final stage of understanding, I transcend my idea of myself as merely a person, I see myself and God as the formless essence of all, both manifest and unmanifest, as Consciousness. When we appreciate God as both form and formless, and as sharing the same identity as ours, we can happily worship God as a ‘personified’ deity if we choose to, or in any symbol that is meaningful to us. Or we can worship God as the totality of nature, as the Field. It does not matter at this stage of understanding because my God-knowledge cannot be negated and has become firm Self-knowledge. Just as quantum physics does not displace Newtonian physics, both understandings are valid at their respective levels.
Chantelle: For or by my reasoning I then think, Maya cannot superimpose because it exists to me and from me. In some sense it is me but … etc. Mind stops, in so far it figures out/solves problems; it just takes the facts which pose no question, so the gap between question and answer – were ignorance ‘dwells’ and knowledge bridges that gap, so to speak, confirm an exercise that is not unlike traveling, fixing a flat tire and so on.
Sundari: See above. Maya does not exist for the Self, though it is an eternal power in Awareness. Nothing ever covers the Self or imposes on it; it is not possible. Maya can only impose if the mind is under the spell of duality.
Chantelle: I think, so I ask you, this is what the Isvara 1 & 2 teaching is/means?
Sundari: Yes. Isvara 1 is Pure Non-dual, Ever-present, Unchanging Awareness free of the creation. And Isvara 2 is Pure Awareness wielding Maya, ‘the Creator’, or ‘God’. Isvara 2 is also free of the creation as it does not condition to the gunas. But Maya makes the creation (jiva) seemingly appear, and Isvara 2 controls the dharmafield.
Chantelle: In other words, the gunas and the I thought being tired of objects, all of them, words, thoughts, jobs: the whole nine yards – sattva answers tamas and says; ya, can’t beat me but you can understand me. And I – hardly an I, relaxes, or mind does. And then I just do my job, work, and curse my way through, while enjoying physical action. At any rate, if Self-knowledge is said to be bad news for the ego … to this one its nothing but good news.
Sundari: The ‘I’ thought is an object known to you, the Self. You are not a thought and do not come and go, as all thoughts do. No object is sentient. If you use the word ‘I’ you should know who you mean by that. Does it refer to you as the Self and is direct knowledge. Or does it refer to the jiva who knows about the Self, meaning indirect knowledge? The gunas or the ‘I’ thought cannot ‘get tired’. The mind gets tired of the weight of duality, i.e. identifying with objects, subtle or gross. All three gunas are mithya, they make up Maya and are the eternal forces running the Field. We cannot get rid of them; they keep the show going. But we can manage them, particularly the relative proportions of rajas and tamas, so that the mind does not condition to either and experiences mostly sattva. This is triguna vibava yoga, mind management. Sattva is the springboard for moksa because Self-knowledge cannot obtain if the mind is not sattvic. But sattva is also an object known to the Self. Moksa does not depend on sattva and neither does the enlightened person. What is going on in the mind never affects the Self if Self-knowledge is firm. A mind may be very sattvic but still in ignorance of its true nature as the Self. Conversely, rajas and tamas may be expressing in the mind of a Self-realized person and not affect them at all because they know they are trigunaatita, beyond the gunas.
As the jivanmukta, you know who you are and experience the bliss of Self-knowledge regardless of how the gunas are playing out in the mind. Getting hung up on sattva is as much an obstacle to moksa as too much rajas and tamas. We call it the ‘golden cage’ of sattva. It is impossible to achieve (and maintain) a totally sattvic mind due to the ever-changing nature of the gunas, which are always present together, with one usually dominating.
Chantelle: excuse me for lacking some civilized manners, I am quite friendly, but miss a bit the proper forms sometimes. Thank you again, for everything you do.
Sundari: No need for apologies Chantelle, I find your emails polite and you ask good questions. Keep up the good work!
Om, Sundari
