Thank you so much for your deeply thoughtful reply. I will read and reread this many more times. Yes, I did read James’ satsang and it rang true for me. The big question: Is it just as simple (or hard) as to take a stand as Awareness, giving all to Isvara? Can you clarify what he meant by seekers still cultivating the dualistic mindset?
Sundari: I think asking to clarify what ‘cultivating a dualistic mindset’ means is the most important question to ask in Vedanta, and merely asking it means you have come a long way. It’s the most subtle question and answer, and James explains why in his satsang:
Unfortunately. When the Self thinks it is a doer, it doesn’t know that the world doesn’t affect it, so it keeps choosing this and that to make it happy. And for its trouble it keeps going round and round on the samsaric merry-go round. The doer likes options and if it knows that a particular path is going to limit them, it avoids it. They call it human nature. But the whole point of Vedanta is to put the doer in the position where it uses it’s free will to eliminate its sense of doership. The only time it stops doing is the day the body dies. Is Vedanta a Both/And or an Either/Or? But if Vedanta is an either/or with reference to your choices, a wise person will cultivate a non-dual mind-set, since it prevents sufferings large and small. It should be a simple rational choice. The hallmark of the Self ignorant Self is fear. It thinks fear is smart. So, it is attracted to the idea that that life is one big conspiracy. It is to be sure, but not in the way it imagines.
We often say that the most confusing part of nonduality is the both/and of it, because though the Self is all there is, and the jiva is only apparently real, it does exist. However, Vedanta is not really a both/and. It cannot be because reality is nondual, which means that the jiva must be the Self. Yet duality (Maya) is hardwired and highly deceptive, so as human nature is governed by it, the mind (ego) quickly learns how to mimic whatever it needs to do to avoid changing. It is a master at this, and we are easily convinced because nobody ever likes to face what lurks in the unconscious – there be dragons there.
Many seekers who have become finders think they are fully on board with applying the teachings, but unknowingly, they may well be doing so as an ego, not as the Self. There are still parts of the jiva identity protected and active. This is nobody’s fault. It is normal for everyone at some point. It came as a shock to me as I had to face this realization, as do all dedicated and Self-realized people. What matters is having the realization, facing what needs to be seen, and taking the next step to dismiss the remaining conceptual jiva identity. It is why we keep harping on the importance of understanding the reflection teaching, which is at the heart of self-inquiry. Discriminating between our conscious awareness and Awareness is where the rubber starts to stop rubbing up on the road.
Taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness sometimes turns out to be more than a little tricky because it is so subtle. The split mind watching itself has a slippery tendency to claim to be Awareness. But is it ‘pure’ Awareness or is it an ego-delusion? How to know, and how to deal with that? Taking a stand is done with the mind and can lead to a kind of self-hypnosis that makes the Jiva think it is the Self without the full understanding of what it means to be the Self. Of course, based on logic alone, (is there an essential difference between one ray of the sun and the sun itself?) the jiva can claim its identity as the Self—but only when its knowledge of satya and mithya is firm, meaning, direct.
It’s hard because the practice of “I am Awareness” does not give you the experience of Awareness or make you Awareness because you are Awareness. It negates the identification with the jiva as a conceptual person (body/mind). This is the most important point. When the conceptual jiva identity is negated, the inquirer should be mindful of the Awareness that remains because negating the jiva often produces a void before Self-knowledge obtains. Nature abhors a vacuum, it can all seem so nihilistic and pointless.
Many inquirers get stuck here and depression can set it if they cannot take the next step, which is understanding that the emptiness of the void is an object known by the fullness of the Self, the ever-present witness. Or, alternatively, many inquirers ‘start’ to experience as Awareness and make a big fuss about it even though you have only ever been experiencing as Awareness all along! It’s just knowledge. There is no big deal about it, even though it is the single most life altering non-event possible.
So, the discrimination between jiva’s experience of Awareness and the Self’s experience of Awareness is essential. The Self’s experience of itself is qualitatively different from the jiva’s experience of the Self as an object or as objects because it is not an experience that ends. It is permanent and spontaneous knowledge. It is one thing to say “I am the Self” as the Self and another to say it as the jiva (ego). This realization may well be a painful moment for inquirers who are convinced that they are enlightened without knowing that they are only enlightened as a jiva, as an ego, not as the Self.
Claiming you are the Self is natural and ordinary because it is the only fact that is absolutely true, never changes, and cannot be denied, only covered up by ignorance (duality). Claiming you are the Self as an ego is a big deal because there may be the belief that you have added something to yourself, and it makes you (the ego or conceptual jiva) special in some way. Or it can lead to the Advaita shuffle – which is: ‘none of it is real, so why bother with the jiva?’ Even if neither is the case, though it is better than not knowing the Self, it is indirect knowledge, so freedom is not that free.
I am not saying this is true of you, I don’t believe it is, only you will know. However it can and often does happen to very sincere inquirers who honestly believe they have been cultivating a non-dual mindset, yet have been cordoning off certain aspects of the jiva they are not willing to face, or believe they don’t need to, which is the same as cultivating a dualistic mind set. People with very strong opinions also tend to fall into this trap – they do not realize that Isvara is ALWAYS the boss, not the ego, because they are too invested in the way they think.
Carol: I have made it known that Self Actualization is the only true goal for me, to walk this world as the Self alone. I guess Isvara heard my request and is taking it seriously I’m not sure whether I’m the rubber or the road but they are rubbing each other raw.
Sundari: This I do not doubt, you are one of the most dedicated inquirers we know. But the teachings are not personal. Actualization of nonduality is hard, and it requires complete dedication to working on what runs the mind, with reference to Self-knowledge. The conceptual jiva is not real, but it is running the show unless we understand and totally negate it. It is not enough to just claim you are the Self; there is no doubt about this. Self-realization is the first and easiest part of self-inquiry. Living 100% as the Self is another story, which is why so few ‘get there’.
Carol: Truly, despair was only momentary. I’m definitely not used to feeling unwell and was too proud of that fact. I’ve often thought about you and the pain you’ve had to deal with, sometimes almost constantly, with great admiration. I laughed out loud at your comment “OK, Isvara. Do your worst. So what?” It’s definitely given me a new direction for my sadhana. At any inkling of fear or anxiety, I hand it off to Isvara. Who wants those feelings?! Is there something more that I should do? I also love “resistance is futile.” Reminds me of Star Trek’s Borgs. Thank you for the sound bytes!
Sundari: I totally believe that despair was a product of tamas, and fleeting in your case. There is nothing wrong with feeling it (or any other feeling, positive or negative) – it’s just tamas, after all. If we are not free to feel our feelings, how free are we? No thought or feeling that appears in the mind comes from you, the Self. All thoughts and feelings are guna generated. Identification with thoughts and feelings is the only problem, as you know. As I said above, even a little Self-knowledge makes such a huge difference to the quality of life for the jiva, it is so powerful.
But the subtle ignorance that manages to elude Self-realization can (and often does) use Self-knowledge as its façade to avoid being seen for what it is. That’s why we often say that the ego ‘survives’ moksa, and nididhysana is thus the longest stage of inquiry. It is so easy to hang up one’s hat and say – ‘I’m done!’ when Self-knowledge obtains. And it is true, you always were the Self, nothing can alter that. Except, Isvara does not make it quite so easy to live that truth. That nothing about the jiva is real does not make it innocuous. It still bites. It’s fine if you are happy living with a little bit of pain that sips constantly at your peace of mind, but it’s really not worth it.
Carol: Yes, the insecurity issue is and has been hitting hard. Though I’ve never been needy, John has always been there with calm steadiness. Thankfully, he’s still calm, at least outwardly, with these issues and he’s figuring out how to handle his own anxiety which at times has been overwhelming. We’ve been able to affirm to each other that the right outcome will unfold. No bad results. Isvara is also working on my impatience!
Sundari: Insecurity is no small thing. In fact, it is the hallmark of jiva identification. If we could boil down all samskaras to one, it would be insecurity, no matter about what. Insecurity is fear – a universal samskara that underpins all others, and one that nobody is exempt from because nothing in mithya can be trusted. Insecurity is another name for ignorance – a doer run by fear and desire. We may be somewhat free of it, but to completely root it out is no walk in the park.
Samskaras always have two main ingredients: 1. Doership 2. fear and desire (same thing). If there is a deep samskara that needs to see the light of day, there is no stopping it doing so. It’s just a question of how (by whom) its known – ego or the Self? If it’s known by the ego, all bets are off because the likelihood is that the ego will find a way to rationalize or deny and bury it. If it can’t, it will do its best to co-opt it under the guise of ‘Self-knowledge’ which is really ‘self-knowledge’. Note the small ‘s’.
On the other hand, if it is the Self that acknowledges a deep and painful samskara when it emerges from the unconscious, the pain may still be a bitter pill to swallow, but it will be temporary – and, a relief. Self-knowledge steps in to elucidate the process of identification and the impersonal origin of the limiting program (Causal body – gunas- beginningless ignorance) and eradicates the fearful ego’s power over us. Self-knowledge does not ‘kill’ the ego; it negates it by educating it. We need a functional ego to operate in the world, the jiva still has its individual inborn temperament. But the ego is no longer in control. Nonduality is the boss.
To really make the claim that Self-actualization has taken place means: 1. The notion of doership is totally negated, and 2. All fears and desires are in the service of Self-knowledge – i.e., not only in line with dharma but are burned ropes, with no strength left to bind. There are no valid exceptions here; you cannot hold onto a ‘little bit’ of ignorance. It’s all or nothing when it comes to Self-actualization. All insecurity has to go.
That you are both on board with the nondual teachings of Vedanta is the silver lining in all your jiva troubles. Though they are understandably anxiety inducing, nonetheless, apart from John’s illness, they are, for the most part, luxury first world problems. Most of us on this planet have never had any real problems when it comes to survival. It is just that the very unpredictable nature of mithya is change, which is why ignorance of the Self causes such suffering for everyone identified with being a person, poor and rich alike.
Carol: Please know that any corrections or whacks are most welcome from both of my teachers who are truly Isvara-given Isvara to me.
Sundari: Thank you, but I have no wish to whack you or anybody. The teachings do the whacking if we are ready and willing to receive them. Unfortunately, for most of us (me included) there is no other way for the mind to give up doership and its fears and desires. That you are open to ‘go there’ is a testament to your dedication to moksa, and can only be applauded; I am so happy for both of you. So many advanced inquirers like yourself cannot take the whacks when Isvara hands them out. The ego identification is still too strong, which is sad for them.
These dark places of the mind that no one wants to visit (though they are but phantoms), pose the darkest terror because they threaten to capsize the fragile ego and its theatre kingdom. The ego does not relinquish its crown easily. True ‘enlightenment’ is not a great experience for the poor ego who so desperately fears its own demise and hangs on for dear life, posing as our best and sweetest friend.
But Isvara is a throne taker who will have the ego’s crown. It wants to rip off the veils of our hearts and tear the mind from clinging to life’s hollow promises. We must have the courage to fling open the doors of the heart and mind to our deepest fears, let the storm rage therein. There is no other way to freedom from and for the jiva.
Much love
Sundari
