R: What is formless meditation?
Sundari: Good question. Meditation is a matter of definition – and most take it to mean quieting and centering the mind, going within, etc. It is a good practice to still an agitated mind, and to prepare it for Self-knowledge. But it is not equal to self-inquiry. For most meditators, there is always a ‘meditator’ present before (often during) and after the meditation, aiming for a certain result in the hope of peace of mind. Maybe you can temporarily get rid of the doer if the meditation is successful, but person with its problems always returns.
Meditation in itself will not remove ignorance. It is an aid to self-inquiry, and if it is practiced with the karma yoga attitude in conjunction with inquiry, it may result in knowledge that you are the nondual Self, and not the meditator of the Self. But if the meditator is present as a meditator – i.e., the meditation is experiential, even if Self-knowledge appears, it very likely will not assimilate. All experiences end, as you know.
With reference to formless meditation – as Ramji replied: Formless meditation is just the pure logic (of nonduality- jnana yoga) that creates the knowledge that removes the ignorance seemingly hiding the Self. The important thing to remember is that with formless meditation, knowledge is always available, assuming qualifications and proper teaching. Whereas in experiential meditation, Self-knowledge may or may not be available.
Informal mediation is forms in which the teachings are encoded. The knowledge is there but it is the devotee’s job to decode the forms. You could meditate on the Self in forms while cooking dinner, walking in the street, anything. Or in nature and see God/the Self in all forms, as you could meditate on the passengers in a bus, wherever, and see God/Self /You in all of them. If Self-knowledge is firm informal mediation is just another word for nondual vision.
Franco: Even a silent mind is an object to “ME.” Even bliss is an object, so knowledge is the only way to remove ignorance. Because knowledge infers that YOU, WE, are not an experience at all. We are THAT which makes any experience possible. Understanding that means that the individual that I take myself to be is apparent.
Sundari: Though inference is a valid means of knowledge, Self-knowledge itself does not infer anything. You can infer you are the Self using the logic of nonduality, but you could still have trouble living it, as most do before Self-actualization obtains. If Self-knowledge is firm, then it has removed the ignorance standing in the way of you appreciating that you ARE the Self. As you say, that which makes experience and exist of forms possible. Then there is no need for meditation of any kind, whether formless or informal. You are a meditation if you have nondual vision.
Roland: “…but the person always returns…” It doesn’t matter does it? Because the persons arising in the waking and dream states and the ‘no person’ in the deep sleep state ultimately are not real. However, these three persons are experienced. And for these three persons to be experienced means they have to be an object to a centerless whole “ME.” It also means that I can only know this if seeming duality appears as the many.
Sundari: Yes, the person is only apparently real, but it does exist because you experience it. It does matter if the person returns after meditation or deep sleep if the mind is still under the spell of ignorance because in that case, you are still bound and limited by duality (Maya), and suffering. There are not three ‘persons’, only one apparent person or jiva experiencing three states – awake, dreaming and deep sleep. The Self, you, is the knower of the jiva and all three states it experiences.
Franco: It also means that I can only know this if seeming duality appears as the many.
Sundari: Your statement implies that the Self is bound by duality, which is impossible. Duality is a superimposition onto nonduality. It is not real – merely an apparition. Real defined as that which is always present and unchanging, which only applies to Existence, the Self. It is true that the Self only ‘becomes’ a ‘knower’ when there is something to know – i.e., when Maya and forms or objects =of knowledge appear. But as the non-experiencing entity, the Self needs nothing to know itself and ‘knows’ only itself.. For the Self, there is no Maya, no objects of knowledge. Only itself. Therefore, the Self is not a knower in the sense we use that word. Yet, though it does not exist ‘in’ forms, the Self is the Existence which lends existence (form) to all forms.
What makes this teaching so difficult is that Isvara (the Self+Maya), is both the uncaused cause and the effects. Yet jivas hypnotized by Maya can only really relate to the effects. The uncaused cause is unseen and unknowable except through Self-knowledge because it is who we are, the causeless Self., free of everything.
Franco: Therefore, I AM non-dual ordinary ever-present, unchanging, unlimited, actionless, effortless, unconcerned AWARENESS and so is everyone and everything else. This is so simple it seems hard to many.
Sundari: Yes, indeed you are and so is everyone. It should be easy but is far from simple or evident to most thanks to the effectiveness of Maya.
Much love
Sundari
