I have read your reply now a few times and will take more time. I don’t know how to say it – while the conch calls to battle, there is a timing and inevitability I do not leave to the doer.
Sundari: Nicely put, when you know that the conch call is always the call not to arms but to surrender.
Michael: It is funny you mention “expect a battle” – these past weeks during our exchanges, I observe the ego (still admittedly having a foot or stake in it) is apparently aware its “territory” is shrinking before my eyes. Suddenly tenuous, like a prolonged halfway moment during beam up in Star Trek, the previously very corporeal ego is no longer all there. That is my ego, the Jiva, the doer there (or here?) That was / is..but never was me. Huh?
I am so reminded of James saying “oh you’ll know…”
Sundari: Yeah. I think anyone truly dedicated to eradicating doership has this insight and experience. The protracted and subtle process of doer negation was the topic of my talk last Sunday, and will be again this coming Sunday. It is totally related to actualizing Self-knowledge, no way around this. Here is the link to the satsang posted online, if you care to read it: https://www.shiningworld.com/sundaris-sunday-10-march-satsang-synopsis-of-the-steps-to-self-actualize/
Michael: The apparently real ego gets irritated. Not for long (like before in my life, perhaps for days or weeks). This is way more subtle. Like “no no, oh no – it cannot end like this, it’s not going to end like this – no!”. Accompanied by shorter moments of acute irritation about a tiny thing, like a pencil dropping, or a computer failing – but lasting a second, even funny in the next.
Sundari: The most important word here is apparent. When you know that, you are on your way to having a very different life as a person. One that is no longer dragged around by its usual tendencies. Of course, this is very irritating to the egoic doer accustomed to normalizing duality.
Michael: While the ego is seeing itself in a reflection, can express itself apparently calmly dying in words as you indicated, there are emotional ricochets. But no more than a bumpy landing on a plane. There is a security – it has to land. Inevitably, after an apparently very long haul flight.
Sundari: Yes, it has no choice but to land, and hopefully, not crash land, if Self-knowledge is working. This is kind of the litmus test of the whole process of self-inquiry. If life is not improving for you as a person, what is the point of doing all this work? You might as well give up and find religion.
Michael: That is to say, I am clearly not the pilot, Ishwara is. The mind and doer are focusing on the scripture, the teachings, the qualifications. Increasingly able to co-pilot the gunas better. So while Krishna is saying “get up and fight” at the beginning of the Holy Gita and all the conches are blowing, I feel he’s not talking to me now. He is me, in a way I cannot fathom properly yet.
Sundari: A sure sign that Self-knowledge is working to remove ignorance. Who can it be, if not you, the Self? Surrender to Isvara is not really a surrender, it is the knowledge that there is no need to surrender because there is no surrenderer and nothing to surrender. When you absolutely know this, there is no more conflict about anything because you not only know that none of it is real, you also know that what you want is only one of so many factors that need to be present for anything to happen. We can take appropriate action for a particular result, but if something is meant to be, you will not be able to stop it. And if it is not, there is nothing you can do to make it happen. Accepting that is living a sane intelligent life.
Michael: I start now to appreciate those words James so often said in the first Satsang I attended – ordinary, unconcerned, unborn Awareness. And wow was that fascinatingly irritating at the time. In every corner of the esoteric, every spiritual group, every religion – one thing none of all that ever says is “ordinary” or “unconcerned”. From humble church prayer book holders to star spangling angelics, nutty cult voodooers, tarot crystal swingers, jungle ashramers or even radical atheists – none of them, ever, use such words!
Sundari: Yes, indeed. Vedanta is the cult of the ordinary, the leaderless and with no followers. There is only the Self, so how can anyone be special? Humility, respect and support of a genuine teacher is very important as they represent the scripture, the Self. But everyone is the Self regardless.
Michael: At the time I thought “What is this (true) wizard saying?!” So interesting and curious! Without a shadow of a doubt this was it (and if this wasn’t it, then for sure, there is nothing else). This was the end stop, right here – or just “the end”. Yet quite quickly I became aware of also sitting in an apparent ton of bilge water; a momentum of previous actions swirling around, pushing “me” relentlessly. Like someone getting pushed on trains in Asia, I was stuck in the push, gripping a moth-eaten copy of Swami Chinmaynanda’s Vivekachudamini. Which I confess is the only Vedanta book I read diligently at the time.
Sundari: Par for the course for all inquirers. Assuming some qualifications, there will be the first ‘hit’ that will knock your proverbial vasana socks off. And then comes the reality sandwich. Getting handed the key to the door of the prison of limitation does not confer instant freedom. You have been institutionalized by Maya/duality, and nonduality goes against what you know to be ‘normal’. This is where the ‘work’ truly begins. Any scripture that works is the right one for you.
Michael: Understanding the essence of everything to be me is like a vast non-separation. Yet conspicuously marked by being so normal, so non-different to everything else. Indifference even. But not in a negative way. My ego hates indifference with a passion – but this is compassionate, while its control just winks out. As you so visually put in your poem – like forlorn ghosts, staring with glass eyes. It reminded me of those deep sea fish swimming lifelessly in utter darkness with apparently nowhere to go or do anything.
Sundari: Yes! It is not the indifference or detachment/dissociation of not caring but the non-attachment non association of true love. Seeing everything as you, the Self. What’s not to love?
Nick: I can see Swami A’s smile now. He knows. As you say, he shows us, “you are this too”. He is “all there” – just like when I met/meet James. It is so hard to describe. He is not empty, yet there is “nothing there” anymore and it is wonderful ! Much love to you both and thank you again
Sundari: Yes, it’s the emptiness that is the fullness of love. No words can describe it. You know when you know.
It is always a pleasure to hear from you. I find your writing inspired and inspiring, thank you.
Much love
Sundari