Paula: I am delighted by your quote from Dayananda about Sannyasa. It is so true and of course, if one’s karma is as a householder when one finds Vedanta, then the life to be lived is the vividisha sannyasa life of study while fulfilling remaining responsibilities.
Sundari: So true, life goes on as it ever has when Vedanta enters your life, except for the way you contact objects. Also, you cannot study Vedanta because it is who you are. Self-inquiry is like no other process because though it requires action, meaning applying the teachings, it is not action that produces results. Self-knowledge itself is the ‘agent’ of freedom if one can call it that without imbuing it with ‘doing’ qualities!
I know what you mean here though, and I know that you know this, but it’s actually an important point that keeps many inquirers stuck outside the teachings. Self-inquiry is hard, and it requires total dedication to the scriptures. But Vedanta is a throw-away, a means to an end and once that end obtains, the means must be discarded. Hanging on to it actually obstructs moksa because there is still an objectification, however subtle it may be. However, while a sannyasin of any ilk cannot study Vedanta, to immerse the mind in the teachings is like basking in a calm ocean, sipping the nectar of the Self, extremely pleasurable!
Paula: When you know who you are, it doesn’t matter what the external life of the jiva looks like anyway as it is known to be mithya and just part of the field of existence. I think that once Self-knowledge is attained, a large part of the process of integration (not that there is actually anything to integrate but it appears so) is letting go of the idea that my life, my story, my karma (the ahankara) ever had any real existence or will ever be anything to do with me. That letting go or renunciation is the core shift that allows moksha to flourish as unwavering peace – and it is a huge shift to make in its entirety -i.e., to assimilate the knowledge completely. As human beings, we are so steeped in ignorance.
Sundari: Well put, and amen! Yes, assimilation of this point is the essence of self-inquiry. There is no story and no karma for you as the Self, and it is a kind of renunciation to assimilate this fact, because the jiva program is so intricate and tenacious in its clinging to the world of objects, so convinced that there is something to be gained, somehow. It lets go slowly and reluctantly, even though it is moving towards freedom and the end of suffering doing so.
Paula: Recently while contemplating, I have had glimpses of the ACTUALITY of non-duality. Not just the knowledge, in the mind, even understanding the logic, but the actuality of it, as the truth of existence itself. I don’t know another way to say it because there are no words for what I experience. I can’t call it an experience because in actuality there is no discrete object, there is no second thing or even the concept of a second thing. But the extraordinary aspect of it is that somehow non-duality, existence, and love are the same – not as an emotion but as a fact. It is sat chit ananda.
Sundari: This is non-dual vision, and there are no words for it. It feels like an experience, but it actually isn’t because it doesn’t end. This modification or thought is called the ultimate modification (antya-vritti) in that it destroys every other thought, giving rise to direct perception/knowledge of reality that you ARE the Self. This is not an event or something you can gain. It is the Self seeing itself, the akandhakara vritti, defined as a ‘modal cognition’, the thought that is not a thought because it is the unbroken ‘I” thought referring to you as the Self, and it is permanent. Plus of course, the association with the jiva identity is fully negated.Â
Paula: I really like that Ramji is speaking about non-duality without using so many Sanskrit terms. I love Sanskrit but I know it puts off some people who otherwise might be attracted to the teaching.Â
Sundari: Yes, it is deliberate for that reason.
Paula: Talking of letting go, my vehicle for this birth – i.e. my body has “seen better days” as my mother used to say. It’s all about guna management as the disease process that has its own momentum brings heavy bouts of tamas, especially in the afternoons, so I am constantly juggling whether to “push through” (which was always my way) or to give in and take to the couch.
Sundari: I think all of us at our age come to this realization, it is inevitable and pointless to deny. Yet I can well understand that in your case there is the added issue of chronic illness taking its toll. Can’t be easy, but what to do. As jivas we are all destined for the scrapheap sooner or later!
Paula: Having four children and their respective partners and 5 grandchildren is also where my attention is often turned. My eldest daughter, who has three little ones, is having a difficult time. Basically, she is very unhappy in her marriage and feels stuck, had bad postpartum depression that has never fully gone away, and since Covid has turned into a more full-blown depression. This situation is my most difficult challenge right now and I am trying to figure out how best to help her.
Sundari: It is very hard to be dispassionate about the suffering of one’s children, I understand deeply how you feel about it. Yet nobody can take on another’s karma, as we have discussed a few times in the past. Although we give as much as we can to ‘our’’ offspring, they do not belong to us, and their lives are in Isvara’s hands, not ours. We can only pray for them and lend a sympathetic ear, without getting too emotionally embroiled, which does not help them or us. Taking on Isvara’s job never bodes well for anyone!
Remember that generosity is not about sacrificing yourself for others — it’s about helping others without harming yourself. It’s not about giving to takers either; it is giving in ways that nurture more givers. It’s not about dropping everything any time someone needs you — it is prioritizing your needs along with theirs. Paradoxically, being less selfless’’ actually allows you to give more: Instead of letting other people sap your energy, you maintain your own motivation and thus help them with theirs. Easier said than done with those we love most, but there you go!
Much love
Sundari
