Linda: What I’ve been contemplating since finding Vedanta is that all relationships are objects, mother daughter, sisters, and all sexual relationships. It’s not that I didn’t know that, but it hit emotionally.
Sundari: This is such an obvious point when you think about from a nondual perspective, but it is far from obvious from the jiva’s point of view. For this realization to hit home, Self-knowledge needs to remove a lot of ignorance. Duality is designed to create need and expectation, which are taken to be normal life processes by most. Especially but not exclusively, by family. That limiting pattern can be more destructive in sexual or romantic relationships. Breaking free of it is hard and will involve making some people in our lives unhappy because they will not be getting what they want from us – which is to cater to their needs. Needy people are energy thieves – they suck other’s joy like leeches.
Linda: I remember reading somewhere that a ‘healthy’ sexual relationship has an element of celibacy in it, even if there is sex. A renunciation. To take a stand in the Self, doesn’t it take renunciation, in any relationship?
Sundari: To live a happy, balanced life in all respects, including sexually, requires being Self referenced. Always, not sometimes. That is the hard part. Always and all ways. Non-duality is powerfully transformative but very subtle and counterintuitive. Duality is very tenacious and the norm. Once we know the difference between the two, we can start the process of training the mind the think differently. There is nothing wrong with indulging sexual needs, or any need not opposed to dharma. But renunciation may be necessary for our own peace of mind, or because living with another person requires taking into consideration their needs.
This is effortless if Self-knowledge is operating because you are what you need and what you always want more than anything is peace of mind. But if Self-knowledge is not in the drivers’ seat of the mind, you will be at war with and distracted by painful desires. Your mind will be a battlefield which will not be resolved even if you get what you want. It’s the only battle worth fighting, though! You two are blessed to face it all armed with Self-knowledge.
Jo: I’m just reading this sweet satsang between the two of you. I like the statement that to live a happy balanced life requires being Self-referenced always. Always and all ways. Not sometimes. Sometimes is easy, always not so much.
Sundari: Yes, indeed. It’s the hardest approach to life because of way we are conditioned by Maya to believe things ‘should’ be. Low self-esteem goes hand in hand with entitlement and expectations. If Vedanta is entertained or dabbled in merely as intellectual decoration or diversion, and not lived, it has no transformative power. Suffering remains because ignorance remains. The true implication of nonduality is so powerful that many are afraid it, so they skirt around the edges, taking little bites but never eating the whole meal. That much freedom is just too much.
Being the Self, while ordinary, is a super-power. Yet, you don’t need to use it because you are it – and so is ‘everyone’ else. If Self-knowledge is firm, you never ‘lose’ or forget it. Maya’s game continues, but it has lost its battle, with you. Standing up to desires is no problem.
Sarah: I’m appreciating it too I think of renunciation as part of discrimination and karma yoga. Renouncing the really self-insulting ideas and taking up a much better story which is actually the truth about me. It seems like a kind of tinker toy approach to knowing I’m non dual love, but it appears to be working. My relationships with “people” aka myself are improving.
Sundari: Renunciation of self-insulting ideas is definitely not tinker-toy. It’s essential karma yoga, which requires acknowledging how Maya (duality) works on the mind. This is huge in terms of the jiva’s happiness and peace of mind. But a lifetime of self-diminishment indoctrination will not give up without a fight. Ultimately though, the only truly valuable renunciation is renouncing the renouncer. If you can do that, your story is automatically upgraded, as are all your relationships.
Sarah: I’m sort of teasing this out in my mind. I’m always alone and relationship/not relationship is known to me so not me, negates the need for need. But because of apparent childhood stuff and vasanas (Sarah’s process, also an object) there has to be vigilance and discrimination which is possible only through standing as Awareness.
Sundari: Yes. As I said to you before, one thought at a time burn down the house ignorance built. Be kind to Sarah but cognizant of her program and the cost involved in sticking with it.
The hardest part of giving up our damaged adaptive child conditioning is not giving up our desires, though you would think it is. It is learning to love and be loved, without fear. Unworthiness runs deep in most people’s conditioning. Nondual love is totally free, it has no hooks. It just is. It cannot be added to or diminished.
Being the Self means that love is love. There are no degrees to it. While we love certain people in our lives in a different way that involves a particular dharma, the love is the same. Nobody is special, and everyone is special.
That is the only antidote to the kryptonite of Maya
Much love
Sundari