Hello Sundari, my name is Samuel, and I have a question which I hope you or Mr Swartz could answer.
Samuel: I abide as the Self throughout the waking state with little to no thought. Other than the fact that I have yet to carry my self-awareness into the deep sleep state I would say that I’m established as the self. I am at least in terms of the waking state, I have no more doubts about my self.
Sundari: Your confidence of being the Self is well-founded because that is the truth about you, and one Vedanta emphasizes to inquirers right up front. You are never not the Self, there is no other option because reality is nondual. However, with regards to moksa, which is freedom from the limited small-self identity, actualizing Self-knowledge is where all the ‘work’ of self-inquiry takes place.
It is one thing to know intellectually that you are the Self, and quite another to be 100% free of the identification with your personal identity. While this may be true for you, and I have no way of knowing for sure one way or the other, I can tell where ignorance lies in the words you use.
For instance, if you truly were firm in Self-knowledge, you would know that there is no ‘my’ awareness, there is only Awareness. Where could you take Awareness if there is nowhere you are not? The Self, Awareness, is not associated with anyone, and if it were, there would be more than one Awareness, which would mean by extension, that Awareness is not nondual.
Non-dual does not mean only one because that implies two. Awareness means nothing other than. So if there is nothing other than you, how can there be ‘your’ awareness? That sounds suspiciously like the small-self identity talking and not the Self, capital ‘S’.
Furthermore, how can you take your awareness ‘into the deep sleep state’? The deep sleep state is an object known to you. The Self is never in any state but the knower of all states. The three states teaching is merely a tool to elucidate the fact that the Self, Awareness, is the only factor that cannot be negated. There has to be Awareness present in the deep sleep state or you would not know you slept when you wake up. And of course, you as a body/mind would never wake up if Awareness is not present.
Samuel: Years ago I read a book called ‘No Mind I Am The Self’ and in it the woman, who the book is about, has her ‘I-thought’ destroyed in the heart, which I believe means the heart chakra, and is then said to have realized the Self. The two gurus who the book both teach that destruction of the I-thought in the heart is necessary for Self-Realization. Now, I know of no other Teacher who proclaims this and I’ve studied Ramana, Nisargadatta, Atmananda and many others. MY own thought is that it is not necessary for I have Recognized myself years ago and now abide as That.
Sundari: You are correct, these teachers are not teaching nonduality and obviously do not know that. Most teachings aside from Vedanta teach a mixture of ignorance and knowledge, and if you cannot discriminate between the two, you will swallow them together and get confused. Well done. The obvious question to ask here is one you should ask every time you use the ‘I’ or ‘self’ word. Who is talking here, and who does the ‘I’ refer to? Who is the knower of the word? All words are mithya, or duality, and they only ever point to the truth, they are not THE truth.
The use of the word ‘I’ when correctly identified with the Self is not a problem. When I say ‘I’ and I know it unites me with the whole universe and encompasses everything, then I know that I am the ‘all-pervasive reality’ – TAT VAM ASI. I am nirammkar – without ego or identification with the doer. But if I say ‘I’ and it separates me from everything, alienating me from Isvara (Total Mind) and the world or creation, then I am ahamkara – identified and bound to the doer. Limited, small, fear-based and inadequate.
Remember that it’s only the identification with the doer or experiencing entity that is a problem and causes suffering. Reality is non-dual Awareness i.e. you (satya). By the grace of Maya, it appears in two orders; satya and mithya. The ego, the ‘I sense’ is in the mithya dimension. Anything in the mithya dimension does not affect or negate satya, just as the table in a wooden table does not negate the wood. If you weigh the wood and subtract the weight of the table, the weight of the wood is the same.
Satya, you, are always free of mithya so there is no reason to get rid of mithya, the ‘I sense.’ It is impossible for satya and mithya to meet. If they did, Awareness would not be non-dual and there would be no escape from duality.
The problem is due to a confusion of the word ‘I sense’ and ignorance. The ‘I sense’ is an effect of ignorance that remains when Vedanta reveals the fact that you are limitless Awareness. Although it remains, it is as good as non-existent because it has no effect on you, as I mentioned. The ‘I sense’ is an essential component of the Subtle Body, because you can’t do actions unless they are motivated by a thought (“I want” or “I don ‘t want,” for instance); that’s the way Isvara has set it up.
Samuel: I want to know yours and James’ view, is it necessary to have the I-thought die in the heart in order to be a Self Realized Sage or is something along the lines a ‘establishment’ as the Self what is necessary?
Sundari: It is not ‘our’ view Samuel. The teachings of Vedanta have nothing to do with us or anybody else. They stand alone and independent, they cannot be negated because they are the impersonal truth. As qualified teachers of Vedanta our job is to unfold the teachings correctly, according to the methodology and tradition of Vedanta.
How did you find us, and have you read the instructions we give on our website for self-inquiry? I am glad you wrote in, and we are very happy to help you with your self-inquiry.
Om and prem
Sundari