Dear Ramji,
I really enjoyed the Videos from Trout lake and hopefully someday I’ll join you in one retreat. So here are my questions about Trout Lake lectures: Does the self need the experience of objects?
Ram: No. It is whole and complete and it is not an experiencing entity. It is just existence shining as ever-full consciousness. It is experience itself, so it has no needs.
Linda: Why does the self, I, experience Maya?
Ram: I doesn’t experience Maya, unless it is apparently deluded by ignorance of its completeness. It is being, experience itself. Nobody knows why. And you can’t experience Maya like you experience an object. However, if you are not experiencing complete satisfaction you are experiencing Maya, meaning you, Consciousness, are ignorant of your nature. The I is always satisfied. Ignorance makes the impossible possible. But what is possible is not actual so there is in fact no ignorance for you.
Linda: Is there a reason why the consciousness as freedom itself thinks it needs experience?
Ram: Nobody knows why. We only know that it thinks it needs to experience things to gain bliss when ironically bliss is its nature. If you say you want this or that because it will make you happy, without knowing that happiness is your nature, then you are experiencing ignorance, which Vedanta calls Maya.
Linda: Doesn’t what happens in mithya affect sathya?
Ram: You are satya, the self. Mithya doesn’t affect you. If it does you are ignorant of your ever-free nature. Freedom means that nothing changes you. If seemingly unreal experiences, affect you, you are deluded because you are free of discrete experiences whether you know it or not. There are not two or more experiences unless you are under the spell of Maya and if there is more than one experience—I AM—they aren’t real if you have no doubt that you are real. What is real can’t be affected by what isn’t.
Linda: What is the propose of mithya and the relation of the self?
Ram: Mithya…the world…seemingly hides the self. It depends on the self but the doesn’t depend on it. But the question isn’t right because fascination with experiences keeps your attention away from your self.
Linda: If I am already free, what is the whole point of experiencing the apparent reality?
Ram: There is no point. It is just entertaining, like a movie. Can you explain the idea that “experience and the self are the same”?
When you experience something you are just experiencing your self. There is nothing else to experience. Maya/Mithya/ignorance makes it look like you are experiencing something different from you.
Linda: Experience is a limited situation, right?
Ram: No. Experience is limitless existence shining as consciousness. It is sat, being. It seems to be different limited situations when ignorance is present.
Linda: So how can it and experience be the same as existence?
Ram: See the sentence above.
Linda: At least it’s part of existence as jiva is part of the self and Maya part of Isvara…?
Ram: Yes, if you think that experience is limited, meaning a lot of different experiences that are different from you. But all the different experiences you have are different in name only. They are just experience experiencing itself, which is a statement that you shouldn’t take literally. Experience is consciousness so it doesn’t have the instruments (body/mind) that make experiences possible.
There are two instances of ignorance in your question. First jiva isn’t part of the self because the self has no parts. Second, Maya isn’t part of Isvara, it is ignorance of Isvara.
Linda: Does action create ignorance and vice versa?
Ram: Action doesn’t create ignorance. Ignorance creates action. Action reinforces ignorance, meaning it makes the self think it is a doer doing actions but the self can’t do anything because it doesn’t have the instruments necessary for action.
Linda: How can I remove ignorance of the self without doing sadhana?
Ram: You can’t by doing sadhana, unless the sadhana is listening with a clear mind to Vedanta unfolded by a qualified teacher. Only knowledge removes ignorance. Sadhanas other than those recommended by Vedanta reinforce ignorance.
Linda: Is there some kind of balance between ignorance/knowledge and action?
Ram: Ignorance causes action. Knowledge removes ignorance of your wholeness. Action can make the mind ready for knowledge.
Linda: What’s your definition of experience, how do you define it, is it momentum or out of time?
Ram: Experience is Awareness plus a thought in the mind. Awareness is out of time, whereas thoughts are in time. Experience is satya and mithya but mithya isn’t real so experience just satya.
Linda: I’m asking because you’ve told us that an experience is finite from the jiva point of view, but the self is experience itself.
Ram: I said individual experiences are in time. They happen one after another. Some are short and some are long. Experience is Being—what is— so it is out of time. It doesn’t change.Regarding the difference between the voice of the self and the voice of jiva, is there any tool or advice that you could share about how to differentiate them?
Ram: The tool is knowledge (Vedanta) because it makes the difference clear. The jiva thinks it is small and incomplete so it tells you that you are small and incomplete. It makes you worry. It is not your friend. The self is your best friend. It loves you so it tells you that you are wonderful, that you don’t have to worry, that it has your back. Thank you so much, I don’t know how many times have you answered these questions but I really really appreciate your time.
Ram: It’s OK. It is my duty. Love you, Linda.
